Episode 2

I Fix Free Haircuts

Published on: 27th August, 2023

In this uproarious episode titled "I Fix Free Haircuts," host Erika Audrey and Kelly are joined by the hilarious Greg Toomey. Get ready to humorously dive into the power of embracing your authentic self.

Join Erika, Kelly, and Greg as they unravel the secrets behind using humor to transform marketing yourself from ordinary to extraordinary. From side-splitting anecdotes to valuable insights, you'll find yourself both laughing and learning.

Discover how showing up as your best self can lead to remarkable outcomes, all while sharing a good laugh with our trio. Tune in to "I Fix Free Haircuts" for a dose of wisdom served with a side of humor.

Transcript
greg:

Uh, welcome to Clover

kelly:

Club.

kelly:

Hi.

kelly:

Hi Kelly.

kelly:

How are you?

kelly:

I am so good.

kelly:

How are you, Erica?

kelly:

I am,

greg:

I'm so, I'm so good 'cause I'm so excited about our guest today.

kelly:

Um, his

greg:

name's Greg.

greg:

His name is Greg.

greg:

Greg is one of my favorite clients.

greg:

He is a fucking trip and a half.

greg:

And if you've shopped at Hawkins and Clover and you've seen our

greg:

tote bag collection, all of those sayings come from Greg.

greg:

He just fires them off.

greg:

He's a genius.

greg:

He's a, a comedic genius.

greg:

Wow.

greg:

And he's sitting here with just dying to speak.

greg:

So let's go ahead and just welcome him.

greg:

Greg, say hi.

kelly:

Hello.

kelly:

Hi.

kelly:

Hi.

kelly:

I'm super excited to be here and I'm having a coffee table put

kelly:

out and published in January, so

greg:

Wow.

greg:

Have all my sayings get that plugin.

greg:

Um, what's your

kelly:

at?

kelly:

That's a great idea.

kelly:

That's actually a great idea.

kelly:

Yeah, you should do that.

kelly:

Alright.

kelly:

Was that serious?

greg:

Are you doing it?

greg:

I'm actually doing something similar that I don't wanna share.

greg:

Too much details on, but just give us a hand.

greg:

Yeah.

greg:

What I'm, okay, fine.

greg:

Fucking let's just share.

greg:

Come on.

greg:

Full final.

greg:

What you got?

greg:

What's, what even is a secret?

greg:

, I'm putting together a Hawkins and Clover deck, and it's gonna be kind of

greg:

like my version of like Oracle cards.

greg:

But you just pick a card and it'll be, if it's not a hell yes, it's a hell no.

greg:

So cute.

greg:

Or, you know what I

kelly:

mean?

kelly:

Those are gonna be great for terror readings.

kelly:

In fact, I used to give carrot card readings with my sisters

kelly:

Charlie's Angels playing cards.

kelly:

Oh my God.

kelly:

And I was always like, beware the Shelly Hack.

kelly:

Oh

greg:

my God.

greg:

I can totally see you doing that,

kelly:

actually.

kelly:

That's fucking hilarious.

kelly:

Wait, I cannot wait to use your new deck as terrified.

kelly:

Oh yeah.

kelly:

You'll be, you, will you.

kelly:

It it's gonna be my life journey.

kelly:

I know my deck of cards.

kelly:

Oh my God, I'm totally in hundred percent.

kelly:

Look at this.

greg:

It's basically done.

greg:

You just

kelly:

sold two of them, so

greg:

yeah, it's basically a million.

greg:

So, uh, if you're listening, we did a little pre-recording conversation and

greg:

somehow I jokingly asked if anybody wanted champagne and the answer was yes.

greg:

And I don't normally drink it work.

kelly:

I think answer was, well, yeah, we said this is not a

greg:

joke to us.

greg:

Yeah.

greg:

So, , we're gonna just have a glass of champagne.

greg:

I never drink at work, but I we're, casting can make

greg:

an exception for anything.

greg:

We're totally casting.

greg:

I was ill prepared for that pop boom.

greg:

I love champagne.

greg:

Greg just learned about natural wines from me.

greg:

From Kelly?

kelly:

Did I barely, it was a, I'm not three minute conversation at most.

kelly:

And it was an, it was an alcoholic elevator pitch.

greg:

Well, it came up because Greg, you're doing a cleanse with the champagne.

kelly:

Clearly.

kelly:

I suck at that.

kelly:

He's only drinking wine.

kelly:

It's, but I will never, I don't care what's going on, on, I

kelly:

don't care what's going on.

kelly:

I will never say no to champagne.

kelly:

Thank you.

kelly:

You

greg:

know, it's kind of is its own special category.

greg:

I feel like you get seven years of bad luck if you decline a nice

kelly:

glass of champagne.

kelly:

I mean, you can see the goodness right through the glass.

greg:

I do.

greg:

You know, if you're ever at an event with past trays of champagne,

greg:

do you know how to tell if it's a good glass or a bad glass?

greg:

Tell me

kelly:

now.

kelly:

I would love to know you, Kelly.

kelly:

No, I don't feel like this is, I feel like you should know that.

kelly:

I feel like I should know this.

kelly:

This is

greg:

a life hack right here.

greg:

Yeah, this is a life hack.

greg:

, the fewer, the bubbles, the higher quality, the champagne.

greg:

So if it's super bubbly and effervescent, it's, it's got

kelly:

la many other things in it.

kelly:

Let's look at this one.

greg:

Oh, what have we got?

greg:

This

kelly:

is, it's almost like moonshine and I get it confused, which is problematic.

kelly:

But if it's in the jar and you shake it up and it has one big bubble, it's

kelly:

either good or you could go blind.

kelly:

I can't remember.

kelly:

So, oh man.

kelly:

But it's like tiny bubbles or either if it's lots of bubbles or one big

kelly:

bubble, one's good and one's bad.

kelly:

I don't know which.

kelly:

But look it up.

kelly:

Well, this

greg:

is where my saying I'll try anything twice.

greg:

Does not come in

kelly:

handy.

kelly:

Yeah, I would not try anything twice.

kelly:

Oh my God.

kelly:

I'm a risk adverse person.

kelly:

Really.

kelly:

Like I am.

kelly:

Yes, I am.

kelly:

So anxious just as a human.

kelly:

Mm-hmm.

kelly:

I, and it's mostly surrounding scary things like, like that, like dying,

kelly:

like some sort of terrifying thing.

kelly:

Don't get that from you at all.

kelly:

I thought you'd run around with sparklers in your bra.

greg:

Did you, you think she's wearing a

kelly:

bra?

kelly:

I don't wear brass.

kelly:

I'm sorry.

kelly:

In your tubes out

kelly:

that so funny.

kelly:

Yeah.

kelly:

Just so everyone knows, I don't wear bra.

greg:

Glad we got that outta the way.

kelly:

I'm a very confident person, but I'm a very risk adverse

greg:

person.

greg:

. kelly: We should also Cheers.

greg:

Yeah.

greg:

Okay.

greg:

Cheers.

greg:

It's, let's go my buddies.

greg:

Yay.

greg:

Cheers.

kelly:

Clove buddies.

kelly:

Clove.

kelly:

Clove buddies.

kelly:

That's what we're gonna call our fandom.

kelly:

Oh my God.

kelly:

Clove buds.

kelly:

Clovers.

kelly:

Clove buds.

kelly:

Clovers.

kelly:

That's way cuter than it's very Stevie Nicks clove buds.

kelly:

Jesus.

greg:

Greg, will you, and I'm gonna put you on a leash on this one, but

greg:

can you give us a brief elevator pitch of who you are and what you do?

greg:

Wow.

greg:

Um, because I need to know.

greg:

Yeah.

greg:

Everybody listening needs to know.

greg:

I,

kelly:

I'll tell you that I am from Mobile, Alabama.

kelly:

I'm coach trash.

kelly:

Um, I came to Atlanta in 8 19 89 and was an assistant manager

kelly:

at the GAP mall at Cumberland.

kelly:

Oh my God.

kelly:

Where Julia Roberts in her irritating family shop.

kelly:

Oh my God.

kelly:

Wow.

kelly:

That's sidebar.

kelly:

I fell into property management, was multifamily real estate, and I've been

kelly:

in that space for 20 plus 25 years.

kelly:

Mm.

kelly:

And I've transitioned in 2000 from the owner operator side

kelly:

to the vendor partner side.

kelly:

And now I sell technology.

kelly:

I love that.

kelly:

How did you make that transition?

kelly:

I just said residents suck and I went to the, the other side.

kelly:

People or the, I'm the classic literary hero people are my greatest

kelly:

strength and my greatest weakness.

kelly:

Mm-hmm.

kelly:

Uh,

greg:

yes.

greg:

One thing that has been enjoyable for me in our professional relationship, Greg, is

greg:

watching you and your career, evolution.

greg:

And I think that you have such a good framework for how you approach everything.

greg:

Everything you find the humor and you have a great attitude.

greg:

Even on the days, I can tell you're like not thrilled about stuff, you still

greg:

don't let the bad stuff rise to the top.

greg:

You always present in like a very fun, loving way, and it is so just.

greg:

Inspiring on just a very , lowkey way, you know what I mean?

greg:

Stop being sweet.

kelly:

What?

kelly:

It's very, I don't what to do with this.

kelly:

That is very kind and I appreciate that.

kelly:

And I, that is something that is important to me.

kelly:

I try to, not that I don't have dark days or moments or whatever Sure.

kelly:

But when I'm out in the world, I don't wanna waste it, you know?

kelly:

I wanna make the best of everything.

kelly:

And there is two sides to every conversation.

kelly:

And sometimes you've gotta have a really good sense of humor to find the other one.

kelly:

Yeah.

kelly:

That is literally so true.

kelly:

I like that.

kelly:

Yeah.

kelly:

Are, , are you an extrovert?

kelly:

I think I am.

kelly:

Uh, I, you know, obviously I think that Covid changed me a little bit.

kelly:

Mm-hmm.

kelly:

Before I used to say absolutely full frontal game show host all day long.

kelly:

Yeah, I could see that.

kelly:

But ironically, I, I find myself, when I see myself in a room of, of, in a

kelly:

social event, I can, I see myself.

kelly:

Entertaining and holding court in those arenas.

kelly:

But I don't want people to pay attention to me.

kelly:

I don't wanna stop the room.

kelly:

I don't wanna grab the mic.

kelly:

Mm-hmm.

kelly:

I don't want to command attention.

kelly:

Mm-hmm.

kelly:

I want or steal it in any way.

kelly:

I just want to be part of it and I'm, I will probably be one of

kelly:

the loudest people in the room.

kelly:

Yeah.

kelly:

I mean, I think all of us can relate to that.

kelly:

Yeah.

kelly:

, here at the stable.

kelly:

But, , do you get your energy from people?

kelly:

again, back to the literary hero, I do get my energy.

kelly:

I feed on people and they drain me.

kelly:

Yeah.

kelly:

In ways that I never would've thought possible.

greg:

Interesting.

greg:

Yeah.

greg:

Interesting.

greg:

I agree with that.

greg:

I'm definitely, I'm a very outgoing introvert.

greg:

I'm always gonna be, and I think, kind of like what you're saying,

greg:

you're a good facilitator, Greg.

greg:

Like if you're in a room, you're gonna do your best to make sure that

greg:

everyone else is having a good time.

greg:

Drinks are filled.

greg:

, Greg and his partner, they are famous for these pumpkin carving

greg:

parties and they're amazing.

greg:

Shut up.

greg:

And the way y'all seamlessly interact, it's this

greg:

choreographed beautiful hosting.

greg:

Aw, it's so cool.

greg:

But you're, you're the center of attention 'cause it's your party.

greg:

But the guests never feel like, I, I don't know how to explain it, but

greg:

, you're just really good at taking that energy and using it for good

kelly:

That's so cool.

kelly:

Thank you.

kelly:

And I, I, I love people.

kelly:

They are, um, they, they fascinate me and I love to.

kelly:

I'd love to spend time with them and figure out how they're

kelly:

wired and how they're built.

kelly:

Yeah.

kelly:

Mm-hmm.

kelly:

, and because of the complexity of the world around them and just how,

kelly:

and especially knowing one people's stories, it's like when you first meet

kelly:

someone who said, oh, you kind of, not labeled them, but you assess them, oh,

kelly:

they're this bucket of characteristics.

kelly:

And then you spend really quality time with them and you realize,

kelly:

wow, they didn't start this way.

kelly:

They have built themselves to be, or they have evolved to this, to use your word.

kelly:

Yeah.

kelly:

Or they, you know, they overcame a lot to be this.

kelly:

Right.

kelly:

And you, we appreciate all that, that much more.

kelly:

Right.

kelly:

And I mean, the reason I was even bringing up the introvert extrovert

kelly:

thing, , is because Erica was saying that you always have this positive attitude,

kelly:

, especially like surrounding people.

kelly:

Mm-hmm.

kelly:

, and I feel kind of similar and I think it's because I'm a huge extrovert.

kelly:

I, my happiness is when I'm with people.

kelly:

I love that.

kelly:

I really do love that.

kelly:

Yeah.

kelly:

And I think if before covid, I would've completely identified with that.

kelly:

Yeah, exactly.

kelly:

Yeah.

kelly:

Post covid.

kelly:

, I think I'm, I'm also, maybe the older I get, the more secure I am in myself.

kelly:

I'm more of, , an exaggerated introvert maybe.

kelly:

Yeah.

kelly:

I mean, I don't necess, I'm perfectly happy being at home with my dog and Chris.

kelly:

Yeah.

kelly:

But I do, when I'm out, I, I enjoy that as well.

kelly:

Yeah.

kelly:

I need to be going out always.

kelly:

I'm, I'm just having the most fun when I'm, when I'm out, my job is very

kelly:

social, so I have that component that feeds me and during the day as well.

kelly:

So yeah.

kelly:

Also, depending on how that day goes, if it's a draining day, I just

kelly:

need to unplug, which makes sense.

kelly:

But when I'm on, I am on.

kelly:

Yeah.

kelly:

Yeah.

kelly:

Wow.

greg:

Well, cool.

greg:

I think,, What I'm, , extrapolating from all of that is it's just

greg:

you wanna be like fully present in whatever dynamic you're in.

greg:

So if you're in a social engagement, you're gonna be,

greg:

bring that full side of you.

greg:

But if you're at home relaxing and unplugging, you're

greg:

gonna really lean into that.

greg:

Also,

kelly:

we, that was a beautiful way to, made me seem so effortless.

kelly:

However, comma, um, I love that because I do, I, I, I do approach

kelly:

those things with intention.

kelly:

Mm-hmm.

kelly:

You know, I, I, I wanna make, I wanna make sure that I'm the best

kelly:

version of me every chance I can.

greg:

Uh, yes.

greg:

That is so important to me, even when I don't get it.

greg:

Right.

greg:

Even if you try, I think just having that kind of framework is so important

greg:

for how you show up in relationships, whether it's professionally or

greg:

personally, family, whatever.

greg:

Yeah.

greg:

And just going in with that intention of like, I'm gonna

greg:

be the best version of myself.

greg:

And some days that's a different version, right.

greg:

Than other days.

greg:

, and that's okay.

kelly:

I think I've learned that lesson just by being around people

kelly:

because yeah, it strikes me how, how often I see people completely

kelly:

disconnected and detached in a crowd.

kelly:

Uhhuh, you know, everyone is looking at their phone.

kelly:

I know no one is making eye contact.

kelly:

Yes, no one's smiling.

kelly:

I mean, that's stuff that I'm like, you know, again, I'm, I'm from a

kelly:

different generation, but that stuff matters and that those, it does matter.

kelly:

Those that social cues and social arts that we should never

greg:

lose.

greg:

Yeah, I completely agree with that.

greg:

I think.

greg:

a lot of people, this is kind of like therapy talk, but there's this concept

greg:

of sending in your representative.

greg:

So whether it's in a like in-person dynamic where you've just met

greg:

somebody, it's like you're not gonna get the deep stuff about someone.

greg:

You're gonna get whatever version of themself.

greg:

They've kind of Oh, interesting.

greg:

Composed, and they're like, this is the me I bring to the world.

greg:

And then you've gotta peel away those layers, like you were saying

greg:

earlier, Greg, about getting to know people's backstories.

greg:

And it gives you so much more empathy and compassion and just

greg:

understanding of the human experience.

greg:

And it's our need to categorize things that sometimes that is

greg:

a detriment to, uh, connecting.

kelly:

Yeah.

kelly:

Because you're too busy on that.

kelly:

Yeah.

kelly:

And not being present to what it is.

kelly:

Yes.

kelly:

Mm.

kelly:

You're, you're dissecting it as opposed to appreciating it.

kelly:

Yes.

kelly:

If that makes sense.

kelly:

Yes.

kelly:

I think that, I think.

kelly:

So funny.

kelly:

'cause Chris is an amazing man.

kelly:

He's an amazing soul.

kelly:

Chris is the best.

kelly:

Well, I can hear you so cute.

kelly:

Um, that's hurtful.

kelly:

Chris is the second best.

kelly:

Um, and he is, has such a heart of gold and he's amazing in

kelly:

how he walks through the world.

kelly:

He will leave this world so much better than he found it.

kelly:

Yeah.

kelly:

And it, and if you wanna get to know Chris, it won't be at a party.

kelly:

It will be one-on-one.

kelly:

Mm-hmm.

kelly:

And you need to take the effort to make that happen.

kelly:

And when you do, the reward is infinite me.

kelly:

Everyone thinks they know me.

kelly:

Everyone thinks I'm their best friend.

kelly:

But part of that, you know, I mean, that's your representative.

kelly:

It's, yeah.

kelly:

It's so French Strange.

kelly:

There are occasions when people come up and they say, oh my God.

kelly:

I'm thinking, okay, now I'm feeling a little uncomfortable because

kelly:

you passed some social boundaries.

kelly:

Mm-hmm.

kelly:

You're a little too intimate in knowing where we are in this

kelly:

relationship, whatever this is.

kelly:

Mm-hmm.

kelly:

Yes.

kelly:

I tend to overshare.

kelly:

My problem with or

greg:

without being prompted,

kelly:

I mean, I kind of say what I think.

kelly:

Mm-hmm.

kelly:

I don't have that big of a filter.

kelly:

I mean, clearly I have like, like I was raised in fucking indoors,

kelly:

suburbia, like, I'm like indoors.

kelly:

Like I have like the whole like be sweet, act, nice thing within me.

kelly:

Yeah.

kelly:

Um, so I have that.

kelly:

But besides that, especially when it comes to my emotional self, I'm a huge sharer.

kelly:

I don't know what it is.

kelly:

Gimme an example of that.

kelly:

Does that mean like the people on social media that share what they, their

kelly:

meals and what they, their feeling?

kelly:

It's, and the part that, I'm just gonna say this, I'm gonna interrupt you.

kelly:

Yeah.

kelly:

The part that bothers me, and I can't get wrap my head around it, is when they have

kelly:

this crisis or this tragedy and they wanna share that in the world, and I'm like, I'm

kelly:

not sure what I know what to do with that.

kelly:

I would never.

kelly:

Actually, I don't ever put any of my emotional stuff on social media.

kelly:

Mm-hmm.

kelly:

It's always in real life in person.

kelly:

And it's more of, I love that and it's always really lighthearted.

kelly:

Like I'm never, I don't really cry that much.

kelly:

And so I, I like to make you cry.

kelly:

Oh God.

kelly:

I love to see people cry, but truly I don't that much.

kelly:

I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna prompt him anymore.

kelly:

Um, prompt him, but don't make eye contact.

kelly:

I know I'm not scared.

kelly:

You're sitting right across from each other.

kelly:

But I tend to just share stuff about my relationship, share stuff about my

kelly:

relationship with my mom, like things that just come up in conversation

kelly:

and they're never that serious.

kelly:

I think it helps me so much to talk about my stuff.

kelly:

About, I think what I'm hearing you saying is you're only, you, you're

kelly:

primarily sharing the joy in your life.

kelly:

No, but not emotion, not dark.

kelly:

Feelings?

kelly:

No, not like, not like dark, dark stuff, but like, I, I don't know,

kelly:

like I'll talk about my struggles with my insecurities with people.

kelly:

Um, like that's not that intense of a struggle for me necessarily.

kelly:

So like when I bring it up, it doesn't feel as intense.

kelly:

I'm also always bringing it up in a lighthearted way.

kelly:

I just find it interesting because the representative talk

kelly:

that we were talking about.

kelly:

Right.

kelly:

I don't feel like I have that.

kelly:

Interesting.

kelly:

I feel like when I meet somebody, they're meeting me.

kelly:

I'm very chameleon esque.

kelly:

Like I kind of adapt to who I'm around, but I'm always

kelly:

saying everything I'm thinking.

kelly:

It just has a different tone.

kelly:

Yeah.

kelly:

It comes from a different place.

kelly:

Yeah.

kelly:

I too have a very reflectant personality.

kelly:

Yeah.

greg:

Same.

greg:

I think good conversationalists do.

greg:

I think so too.

greg:

You, you kind of have to Yeah, I

kelly:

know, but I'd still get, I, I'd get down and hard on myself

kelly:

when I'm confronted with someone super pissy and super unreasonable.

kelly:

Oh.

kelly:

Because I don't want to, I don't wanna match that energy.

kelly:

Yes.

kelly:

But so that's a, so that's a struggle for me at

greg:

times.

greg:

Yeah.

greg:

'cause you are attempted to, uh, lower yourself.

greg:

Roll around it.

greg:

Yeah.

greg:

Yeah.

greg:

What is that?

greg:

And I don't want that.

greg:

There's that saying that's like when somebody sees two idiots arguing,

greg:

they don't know who started it or whatever, where it's like, if you're

greg:

arguing with an idiot, no one knows which one of you is the idiot.

greg:

Right?

greg:

Yeah.

greg:

And it's like, don't, just

kelly:

don't.

kelly:

Yeah.

kelly:

It's like, don't have a fight with ugly people.

kelly:

They don't have anything to lose.

kelly:

Yeah.

kelly:

That's so funny.

greg:

Tote bag.

kelly:

I'm definitely gonna like, keep that in the back of my brain and

kelly:

it's gonna pop up at the worst times.

kelly:

Oh God.

kelly:

Kids gonna just like, Of your book, of your coffee table.

kelly:

Of my coffee table book.

kelly:

I

greg:

love that.

greg:

This coffee table book has fucking chapters.

kelly:

Yeah.

kelly:

It's very complex.

kelly:

It's gonna be therapeutic.

kelly:

One is there just like chapter one and then there's one saying chapter

kelly:

two and then there's another saying.

kelly:

Oh, absolutely not.

kelly:

No.

kelly:

Okay.

kelly:

So there's multiple within one.

kelly:

Yes.

kelly:

Yes.

kelly:

I'm gonna give you a pocket full, oh my god.

kelly:

Of, of, um, phrases and terminology to use at any given social case.

kelly:

So is it a novel or is it a coffee table book?

kelly:

I think it's more of a memoir.

kelly:

Okay.

kelly:

Okay.

kelly:

Just gonna be called.

kelly:

No, I can't make that shit up Arm an armo.

kelly:

I'm a big coffee table book person.

kelly:

Yeah, they're great.

kelly:

Wouldn't that be a great coffee table book named Armi?

kelly:

Oh,

greg:

actually, yeah.

greg:

I feel like they should sell it at the chin.

kelly:

Wait, literally that's the best name.

kelly:

You, you need to do it.

kelly:

You can need to publish this.

kelly:

'cause I feel like that Can I produce your book actually?

kelly:

Well, you, you know you can.

kelly:

Yes.

kelly:

Abso abso flipping literally.

kelly:

And yes, we'll just make every chapter a bag.

kelly:

And downstairs.

kelly:

Oh my God,

greg:

my God.

greg:

We do hashtag collaboration, hashtag

kelly:

winning.

kelly:

This is like no longer just a podcast.

kelly:

It's a business.

greg:

Well, it started.

greg:

This is

kelly:

Brain Shark right here.

kelly:

Brain Shark.

kelly:

It's a new business.

kelly:

It's a new two businesses now instead of one business.

kelly:

Whoa.

kelly:

Oh

greg:

my God.

greg:

This is great.

greg:

This is called Synergy?

kelly:

In the, in the, um, spirit of, um, sharing and being transparent,

kelly:

this champagne is delicious.

greg:

Oh, I think it is too.

greg:

I'm so glad.

greg:

Um, this is from a very good friend of mine, uh, Pierre Sier is your friend.

greg:

Yeah.

kelly:

Pierre is your friend.

kelly:

I was like, wow, wow.

greg:

You've got some really, well, I just, I was like, I

greg:

don't wanna like name drop.

greg:

'cause people know who this person is, um, if they live in the city.

greg:

So I didn't wanna be like weird about it.

greg:

Um, well shout out

kelly:

to you whoever gave

greg:

Yeah, she's awesome, Erica.

greg:

She knows who she is.

greg:

Thank you for the Pierre er arm.

kelly:

Is it your friend that met at the pool party?

kelly:

Oh, is it your friend that I heard that story about the other day?

kelly:

No, no, no.

kelly:

You had all the friends.

kelly:

So many friends.

kelly:

The possibilities are endless.

kelly:

She's

greg:

really popular.

greg:

I, I do, I have a good, I have a good little crew.

greg:

You know, when you live in the same city for a long time, you

greg:

collect people along the way.

greg:

And, uh, I've lived here my whole life and I can't go anywhere

greg:

without running into someone I know, which isn't always a good thing.

greg:

So, uh, sometimes that's why I'm an introvert.

kelly:

I think a lot of that's your fault because you do have that

kelly:

gravitas that makes people want you do that want to be next to you.

kelly:

And more than a lot.

kelly:

I think a lot of people want your approval.

kelly:

Wait, really?

kelly:

Oh yeah, I think so too.

kelly:

Aw.

kelly:

I'm not one of those people.

kelly:

Same I was at first because you were my boss.

kelly:

Still

greg:

am.

greg:

Yeah.

kelly:

But it feels less bossy and more friendly.

kelly:

Just means you wanna say, so how have you worked for Erica?

kelly:

Not including tomorrow, I know,

greg:

starting yesterday,

kelly:

but it's, it's more friend now for sure than it is.

kelly:

Which is the best, best, which is the best work relationship you can have.

kelly:

It's much be, at first though, I was like, I, I, you can, you

kelly:

can let your boss down all along.

kelly:

You can't let your friend down.

kelly:

Yeah.

kelly:

Well, you can.

kelly:

You should.

greg:

But they probably have,

kelly:

but she's more forgiving now, which is nice.

kelly:

That's totally true.

kelly:

Now what was it like earlier?

kelly:

It

greg:

was the same.

greg:

I have always, she's the strictest

kelly:

boss in the world.

kelly:

I, that case was thrown out.

kelly:

No, she's great.

kelly:

She's

greg:

great.

greg:

Clarify.

greg:

I've really struggled with, actually, this is a good segue into the story that

greg:

I'm gonna share with you guys today.

greg:

If you listen to our first episode, you probably heard me say that this podcast is

greg:

gonna be structured in two separate ways.

greg:

So you'll either have an episode like last time where it's just Kelly

greg:

and I and I am sharing a crazy or hilarious or interesting story.

greg:

And then the other is like, today where we have a guest on like Greg, and I'm gonna

greg:

share a story and that story is going to facilitate our further conversation.

greg:

So, uh, I think we should get into that story.

greg:

Serve it up.

greg:

I'm ready.

greg:

Okay, let's go.

greg:

Um, this is, uh, this is gonna be fun 'cause I haven't told

greg:

this story in a long time.

greg:

Um, it's a vintage Erika throwback.

greg:

Um, over a decade ago I was an employee at a salon and I'd worked

greg:

there for a while and was, uh, just getting to the point where I knew it

greg:

was time to look for what was next.

greg:

And just knowing my, personality type and my, just what I want out

greg:

of my career, the logical next step was for me to go out on my own.

greg:

Which was of course very scary.

greg:

I was 26 years old.

greg:

Um, well, 25 when I started like really thinking about it.

greg:

And I just kind of knew like, okay, this is, this is the next step.

greg:

I wasn't sure exactly what I wanted to look like, but I was in the early stages

greg:

of laying the groundwork for that.

greg:

I had come up with the name Hawkins and Clover.

greg:

Um, I had a logo, but I didn't have a location.

greg:

I didn't have my business plan fully flushed out.

greg:

I was really just kind of getting all of my ducks in a row while I was

greg:

getting my ducks in a row, in a row.

greg:

, I was killing it at work.

greg:

, and that's kind of why I wanted to leave.

greg:

Like I was kind of maxed out where I was.

greg:

And , I knew that that ceiling was never gonna raise.

greg:

And, uh, so the, this time period that this happened, I'm, I'm trying to be

greg:

like sensitive of what I'm saying in case an old coworker or somebody listens,

greg:

they're welcome to, and I don't wanna say anything like inflammatory, but I wanna

greg:

be authentic about what happened, right?

greg:

But there was a window there of about a year, year and a half where, I

greg:

mean, a lot of us left this place and.

greg:

There was a lot of really good things about working there.

greg:

Some of these coworkers are still great friends of mine and

greg:

will be for the rest of my life.

greg:

lots of good relationships were made, but all of us kind of were like,

greg:

yeah, this isn't, this isn't the direction we want our careers to go.

greg:

, so kind of independently, a big group of us were kind of striking out, being

greg:

struck out and just kind of moving on.

greg:

So there were kind of some frank and open conversations that occurred

greg:

in the break room at this place.

greg:

And one of my frank and open conversations was Eves dropped upon and reported

greg:

back to the owner of this business.

greg:

Yeah.

greg:

No.

greg:

Yeah.

greg:

I love it.

greg:

If you're listening, fuck you.

greg:

That's

kelly:

the worst thing we can do.

kelly:

And if you're not, can do, fuck you not correct.

kelly:

Either way.

kelly:

So

greg:

true.

greg:

Yeah.

greg:

Um, it's funny too 'cause I know what this girl overheard and it's like so benign and

greg:

it's just like actually hilarious to me in hindsight that like, this is how the, the.

greg:

Tipping point of such a big career thing for me.

greg:

But one Friday I was at work fully booked, crushing it, making a

greg:

lot of money for this hell yeah.

greg:

Person like I did.

greg:

And I got called upstairs to the office.

greg:

Not the office?

greg:

No.

greg:

Oh, the office.

greg:

Um, so I go upstairs and I'm like, am I gonna get a raise?

greg:

I'm just kidding.

greg:

That was literally never happened there.

greg:

You did go upstairs.

greg:

But I did go upstairs.

kelly:

That's a raise.

greg:

So I get summoned upstairs to the office and I sit down and I get fired.

greg:

I, I'm like, uh, Wow.

greg:

This is not the way, did not see this coming.

greg:

I literally did not see this coming.

greg:

And I was like,

kelly:

why don't you gonna tell me how much I'm crushing

greg:

it downstairs?

greg:

Yeah.

greg:

I was, I mean, my fucking pay stub was telling me how much money.

greg:

'cause if he was taking half, I know how much I was making.

greg:

You know what I mean?

greg:

Wow.

greg:

So I was just like, god damn.

greg:

Um, so he and I don't God if so long ago, like, I don't even remember exactly

greg:

how that conversation went down, but basically it was like, Hey, a little

greg:

birdie told us you're thinking of leaving.

greg:

Here's a fucking box.

greg:

Put your shit in it and go.

greg:

Literally threw a box at me, like, not even kidding.

greg:

How long were you there?

greg:

It was almost 10 years.

greg:

Yeah.

greg:

R u

kelly:

kidding.

kelly:

Okay, so that says, that says, I don't, I don't, I'm gonna not gonna

kelly:

filter what I say because I don't know.

kelly:

Please don't.

kelly:

Those people, Don and I don't really care to ever see them or meet them Yeah.

kelly:

In the future.

kelly:

Um, but that says how small that owner was because everybody worth anything should

kelly:

want to want, should want more, yes.

kelly:

Should challenge themselves.

kelly:

Yes.

kelly:

And just because I'm questioning whether I want to leave or not does not mean

kelly:

you're not loyal or you're not doing him, or doing what you were said you

kelly:

were gonna do for him and with him.

greg:

So true.

greg:

Fuck him.

greg:

100%.

greg:

Yeah.

greg:

I, like, I ran a portion of our education program.

greg:

I was that employee that was like, really?

greg:

I mean, I treated his business like it was my business, right?

greg:

Yeah.

greg:

Yeah.

greg:

Which is my, as a business owner now, that to have an employee like that.

greg:

Oh my god.

greg:

Yeah.

greg:

I mean, worth a million bucks.

greg:

Right.

greg:

Um, but there was a lot of, uh, Ego involved.

greg:

And, uh, he wasn't looking for that type of employee.

greg:

He was looking for people to come in, do their work and shut the fuck up.

greg:

And I get that, but that was never gonna be me.

greg:

And so just little by little, I felt the light leaving my eyes

greg:

and the enthusiasm leaving me.

greg:

Um, and I was too young to feel the way that I felt and that

greg:

portion of my career, and I was just like, this is not gonna work.

greg:

So, Also at that time period was engaged to somebody that I

greg:

knew was not the person for me.

greg:

And so I had the two biggest relationships in my life were not relationships

greg:

I I, that were feeding my soul.

greg:

And I knew that I had to make a change.

greg:

Right?

greg:

Right.

greg:

So I get fired and I was in shock.

greg:

I, you know, I was stunned.

greg:

Um, total blindside and, uh, I had lots of feelings about it, but I just

greg:

immediately went into action mode.

greg:

And so I took the box.

greg:

I received the box as it was tossed down the stairs to me.

greg:

Um, throne.

greg:

Throne.

greg:

Um, I packed my shit and as I was walking down the steps to the back to my car with

greg:

my box of, you know, almost a decade worth of hard work, um, I saw my appointment,

greg:

like I had one more appointment that night and I saw him walking up the

greg:

sidewalk to his and I almost said something and then I was just like,

greg:

I'm gonna let them fucking handle this.

greg:

And, uh, that to this day I see him every four weeks on Saturday.

greg:

That motherfucker is so loyal.

greg:

Not completely.

greg:

And we joke about how funny it is that we were like two ships in

greg:

the night and I like watched him walking up to like, that is Sorry.

greg:

The worst stair cut he's ever gotten.

greg:

I mean,

kelly:

talk.

kelly:

That is so cute.

kelly:

I mean, I think that was a life lesson in just emotional management.

kelly:

Yeah, true, true.

kelly:

I was thinking to myself, I wasn't thinking that.

kelly:

I was thinking, ah, I should have said something.

kelly:

No, I just like, no, you took and you took the hardware.

kelly:

I mean the hybrid.

kelly:

That is, that is amazing.

kelly:

That, and that is, that is a professional.

greg:

Response right there.

greg:

You know, thank you for saying that.

greg:

'cause at the time I was like, as long as my feet are on this

greg:

property, I am still at work and I still have to like show up as a

kelly:

professional.

kelly:

Wow.

kelly:

Yeah.

kelly:

But after the way they treated you, like, ah, I would be so

greg:

mad.

greg:

Oh, I was, I was, I had the whole range of emotions and, but in that

greg:

moment it was, it was actually clarity.

greg:

It was this push that I needed.

greg:

Oh.

greg:

Because I don't know how many ducks could I get in a row before

greg:

I quit, you know what I mean?

greg:

So it was like, I kind of needed to be like, flicked off

greg:

the edge of the diving board.

greg:

Mm.

kelly:

And as a, as a rule, so many of us, usually when your personal life soars,

kelly:

your professional life is a struggle.

kelly:

Mm-hmm.

kelly:

And you seem to be in the same place Yeah.

kelly:

With both your personal and your professional.

greg:

So maybe that was just a little numbing.

greg:

Yeah,

erika:

I think that's , totally fair.

erika:

It was just, it was a tough time, but it was, uh, but look

erika:

at you now, girl, look at me now.

erika:

Honestly, I know.

erika:

It's like, you know, when you plant a seed, you're not gonna

erika:

have a tomato plant the next day.

erika:

And it's easy to think like nothing's happening.

erika:

But that was my seed planting stage.

erika:

Yeah.

erika:

but this is where we get into my finest marketing moment of my career.

erika:

I walked down those steps, I tossed my box of belongings into

erika:

my car and I picked up the phone.

erika:

I didn't call my fiance, I didn't call my parents.

erika:

I did not call my best friend.

erika:

I called, who'd you call?

erika:

My graphic designer.

erika:

And I said, Sherry, we have an emergency drop everything you're

erika:

doing, I'll pay any price.

erika:

I need you to put together a graphic for social media right now.

erika:

And she was like, I was like, I just got fucking fired.

erika:

And she was like, oh my God, I'm on it.

erika:

Like, what does it need to say?

erika:

And I said, it needs to say, I fix free haircuts because I knew the second I

erika:

was fired, every one of my clients was gonna get a phone call and 47 emails

erika:

from this shop offering them a free haircut to try to get them to stay.

erika:

And that's very common and very shitty in the salon industry.

erika:

Wow.

erika:

Mm-hmm.

erika:

But here's the thing.

erika:

No good hairdresser has time on their schedule to accommodate a free haircut.

erika:

So that free haircut is gonna be with a junior stylist who doesn't

erika:

have a lot of experience, and you're gonna get what they pay for.

erika:

You're gonna get what you pay for, which is wow.

erika:

Right?

erika:

But I just, it just, it was like the strike of flight and I was

erika:

just like, this is my thing.

erika:

And honestly, if you wanna go get that free haircut, fine,

erika:

I will fix it for not free.

erika:

, and so I spent the next week, scrambling.

erika:

I just made a list of everything I needed to get together.

erika:

I found this.

erika:

Funny little spot to rent a chair from.

erika:

, I grabbed another girl, she ended up coming over with me and I spent the next

erika:

year just hustling out of that space.

erika:

I found the location we're sitting in now.

erika:

I signed my lease, I did our build out.

erika:

I had no fucking money.

erika:

, nobody would give me a loan.

erika:

I had this like fat, beautiful business plan that I put together.

erika:

Every bank shot me down because I'm like, they think hairdressers are stupid.

erika:

, I had no business experience.

erika:

I had good credit, but not a lot of credit.

erika:

, so I'm just this young girl who's like, hi everybody.

erika:

I have a dream and if you would give me some money, it would be cool.

erika:

, they're just like, why don't you go build your dream on like your own

erika:

money and then come back and see us?

erika:

And I was like, I won't need your money then.

erika:

I don't have any.

erika:

Yeah, exactly.

erika:

So I scrambled and made it work and I opened up this place and

erika:

I kept, I would say at least 90% of my clientele and uh, wow.

erika:

To this day people will randomly be like, do you remember your

erika:

I fix free haircuts thing?

erika:

And I'm like, fuck yeah, I do.

erika:

What's, what's

greg:

impressive to me is that a, that you, that you, without delay, you

greg:

just did that, that trigger clicked for you and same just moved forward

greg:

and you just said, you know what?

greg:

I'm gonna do this.

greg:

Yeah.

greg:

Right now.

greg:

Right.

greg:

This, this is the, the, the fuel that I need.

greg:

Mm-hmm.

greg:

But I mean, I don't know a lot about the, um, the hair industry, but I know you,

greg:

one of my very best friends, Rudy, is a comp pathologist and it's just so funny.

greg:

One thing I do know, I know from where I am with the little hair that I

greg:

have, right, is that people have blind loyalty to a hairstylist a lot, but

greg:

their hair colorist, they will walk through fire in a gasoline g-string.

greg:

So true.

greg:

To find

erika:

you so true.

erika:

It's so true.

erika:

I had so many gasoline g-string in here.

erika:

I mean,

kelly:

Amazing.

kelly:

You were like, guys put some clothes on.

kelly:

Yeah.

kelly:

It's not,

erika:

I can't afford air conditioning yet, but it's coming season two.

erika:

Yeah.

erika:

But you know, it's interesting, that moment, it really was

erika:

like divinely inspired.

erika:

I feel like I can't even take credit for that.

erika:

It was just this flash of like, this is what this house is like.

erika:

It just came.

erika:

Yeah.

erika:

And to this day I have struggled with marketing.

erika:

I hate it because it feels inauthentic and I don't know how

erika:

to accurately market my brand.

erika:

And, and when I say my brand, I mean the retail portion of my brand.

erika:

Because it feels, , I don't know.

erika:

I, I never wanna do anything performative.

erika:

And I, I know we touched on this on last episode also, but it's really hard for

erika:

me to find ways to advertise myself and my business and what I do that doesn't

erika:

feel like I'm just following trends and just doing these things you're like

erika:

supposed to do as a business owner.

erika:

This, I feel like using humor has always been the, like one

erika:

commonality in everything I do that feels the most authentic.

erika:

So this was like a funny way for me to be like, no, for real though.

erika:

Like, y'all are gonna wanna get my phone number.

erika:

Okay.

greg:

If I could, I wanna circle back to something I said earlier.

greg:

Okay.

greg:

I'm talking about how the, the loyalty that hair, , stylists

greg:

and hair colors have Yeah.

greg:

That was not saying, oh, they're gonna find you anyway.

greg:

That was a commentary to the poor decision that that other hair salon owner made.

greg:

Yeah.

greg:

'cause he should have saw through that.

greg:

Mm-hmm.

greg:

When has that never not happened?

greg:

Yeah.

greg:

It's so true.

greg:

And I'm like, you know, again, why don't you, why don't, if I, if I was in this

greg:

situation, I would be kissing your ass.

greg:

Please stay, please train.

greg:

Correct.

erika:

Also, even for that year that I rented that chair in between,

erika:

even if I had been at that place instead of at the chair rental place.

erika:

He would've gotten half of everything I did while I was building this.

erika:

So it's so shortsighted and it's such an interesting case study on how ego can

erika:

get in the way of running a good brand.

erika:

Yeah.

erika:

He was just

kelly:

offended.

kelly:

Very, you, you know what?

kelly:

Sometimes Yeah.

kelly:

And scarcity sometimes.

kelly:

That was all.

kelly:

Mm-hmm.

greg:

There are opportunities to send flowers, to show gratitude for

greg:

people that make really bad choices.

greg:

That better your life.

erika:

You know what I thought of sending him, , when I was open for six months, no.

erika:

I won coffee table Best salon inside the perimeter for Atlanta

erika:

Magazine Reader's Choice.

erika:

Twice.

erika:

Twice.

erika:

, and I thought about sending him a coffee.

erika:

No, I would

greg:

frame it

erika:

and then And sign it.

erika:

And sign.

erika:

Thanks Besty for framing.

kelly:

I also really admire the action because so many people like.

kelly:

Like, yeah.

kelly:

I feel like your body was telling you Yes.

kelly:

Like this is not Yeah.

kelly:

Where I was supposed to be.

kelly:

Mm-hmm.

kelly:

Because if you said after like, I've been in situations where something

kelly:

negative that I didn't want to happen happened, and then I suddenly

kelly:

felt this huge amount of clarity.

kelly:

Mm-hmm.

kelly:

Wow.

kelly:

Yeah.

kelly:

And like I get that and this huge weight off my shoulders.

kelly:

Yeah.

kelly:

Where I was like, for some reason this is good.

kelly:

Mm-hmm.

kelly:

But I'm also a wreck now.

kelly:

Like, what?

kelly:

How does this happen?

kelly:

And so I tend to go kind of inward when that happens and be like, okay, I need

kelly:

to like, Think of what I can do, but the fact that you immediately called that

kelly:

graphic designer, designer, no, I, yeah.

kelly:

The no delay for me.

kelly:

It's crazy.

erika:

My car wasn't even on like, I was like,

kelly:

I was gonna say, the box hasn't cooled from the AC yet.

kelly:

Yeah.

kelly:

Literally.

kelly:

That's amazing though.

kelly:

Like I, I find that very admirable.

kelly:

The, the

greg:

action and Thank you.

greg:

One thing that I've learned in life that it, I just keep saying when,

greg:

when I'm, I'm, I'm using air quotes again, I'm having a bad day, or

greg:

my life is catastrophic in my own personal, caught up, self-centered way.

greg:

Yeah.

greg:

Is that sometimes when things don't go your way, it's simply because

greg:

you deserve something better.

erika:

100%.

erika:

And until you have enough life experience to see that in action, it can feel so

erika:

catastrophic when these big things happen.

erika:

And

kelly:

devastating.

kelly:

Yeah.

kelly:

Not to talk like age, but I do feel that way.

kelly:

I'm like, yeah, I feel like.

kelly:

I'm, you are 12 Twice.

kelly:

I'm 12.

kelly:

Twice.

kelly:

What?

kelly:

I'm not at the age yet where I like accept the things for the better.

kelly:

Yeah.

kelly:

Like truly.

kelly:

Yeah.

kelly:

I just know.

kelly:

But you shouldn't be like, literally not there.

kelly:

I, I know sometimes they feel good.

kelly:

Mm-hmm.

kelly:

And I'm like, what does this suddenly feel good?

kelly:

But mm-hmm.

kelly:

I, I know looking back I'm gonna be like, oh, this was why this happened.

kelly:

And it's cool to like hear your story of that and like, where you are now.

kelly:

Yeah.

greg:

Yeah.

greg:

But in your defense, it's hard to be present to where you are and have

greg:

clarity to what's in front and behind.

greg:

Yeah.

greg:

Mm-hmm.

greg:

It's because

kelly:

you're not being present if you are.

kelly:

And also, truthfully, what's, it's true, what's, what's behind for me, I'm 24.

kelly:

She won't 12 that, but, but what's behind for me is like my teenage hood.

kelly:

Yeah.

kelly:

And that is a totally different situation.

kelly:

I've only been an adult for like,

greg:

What time is it now?

greg:

Yeah,

kelly:

yeah.

kelly:

Like six years, two hours, six, four o'clock, eight minutes.

kelly:

Like it's, it's really like she's a noob.

kelly:

That awesome.

kelly:

I, I, and I feel like a little child in the adult world.

kelly:

I love,

greg:

love that though.

greg:

But I gotta tell you, it's meeting amazing people like you that

greg:

give me hope in our country.

greg:

There is so much chaos going on that's very sweet.

greg:

And I'm like, oh my God, I just need more of you.

greg:

Yes.

greg:

To step up, say, this is bullshit.

greg:

Mm-hmm.

greg:

This is what we're gonna do about it.

greg:

Yeah.

greg:

You know?

erika:

Say.

erika:

I felt that immediately when I met Kelly.

erika:

I was like, she's one of the good ones.

erika:

And like, these are the people that we need to like lift up and like

erika:

prepare to like, you make me blush.

erika:

Well, I mean, I don't give compliments.

erika:

I don't mean that's fucking Sure.

erika:

She's not known for a

greg:

complimentary,

erika:

her congeniality.

erika:

I'm known that if you get a compliment from me, that I mean it

greg:

ab Absolutely.

greg:

Yeah.

greg:

And that's one thing I love about you, that one thing I've, I've gravitated

greg:

like many others have gravitated towards you, is that you have such a strong

greg:

sense of self and that you're, you're so generous with yourself to others.

greg:

I try.

greg:

That's true.

greg:

I love that.

greg:

And, but I you, you're talking about you're struggle for authenticity.

greg:

I'm like, I don't get it.

greg:

I don't get it.

greg:

Because that's interesting.

greg:

It seems, , it radiates off of you.

greg:

You're funny.

greg:

You, you know it, you shoot, you shoot straight.

greg:

I never walk away wondering what you thought.

kelly:

I will say every time that you've told me I struggle

kelly:

with like the os authenticity, I'm like, That is so confusing.

kelly:

I get that you don't love social media and you don't love TikTok

kelly:

and you don't love like these

greg:

things.

greg:

I think that you probably, um, tell me if I'm wrong.

greg:

You're

erika:

probably not, you're

greg:

not wrong.

greg:

, I, I think that, I think because you have, like me and probably you Kelly, is

greg:

that, you've had to endure and be patient to so much inauthenticity is that you're

greg:

harder on yourself because you, so you want to be the, the antithesis of that.

greg:

Yeah.

greg:

Yes.

greg:

But in, but you also have to own what you are achieving and what you've done and

erika:

who you be.

erika:

Yeah.

erika:

I have such a hard time with that.

erika:

'cause I feel like I can always be doing more or should be doing more.

erika:

'cause there's this whole like girl boss narrative that's so fucking toxic and

erika:

uh, I fed into it for a long time and that all was really kind of escalating

erika:

around the time I built this brand.

erika:

Right.

erika:

And, uh, I, definitely played into it.

erika:

, greg: and it's not healthy we'll say

erika:

need to listen to your own voice anyway.

erika:

I agree.

erika:

I agree.

erika:

And I think too, and this kinda goes back to Kelly, what you will just naturally

erika:

learn as your career grows, but seeing how other people handle things and

erika:

saying, Hmm, I don't wanna do that.

erika:

I don't wanna treat people that way.

erika:

Like, I spent almost a decade watching this person run a business, and every way

erika:

I knew I didn't want to run my business.

erika:

And that's the best education I could have ever gotten.

greg:

We were joking earlier, but there is some truth into him or the, he, she,

greg:

whomever it, whatever that person was being a master class in what not to do.

greg:

Yeah.

kelly:

Ego.

kelly:

I mean, it was just so

greg:

ego.

greg:

Yeah.

greg:

You, I've learned more about myself by learning who I'm

erika:

not.

erika:

Yes.

erika:

It's so important.

erika:

And if you just pay attention,

greg:

those are the best, the, the most.

greg:

Obvious lessons.

greg:

Yes.

greg:

If you, if you pay attention, those are the ones that hit home.

erika:

Absolutely.

erika:

Yeah.

erika:

And I also too, if you see yourself repeating cycles and phases and like,

erika:

Hey, I keep running into the same issue, it for me, it forces me to reflect on

erika:

like, what am I contributing to this?

erika:

I'm like, what role am I playing in it that makes this keep happening?

erika:

And then saying, Hmm.

erika:

Like let me try that differently the next time I get the opportunity.

erika:

And then seeing the result of that and you're just like, whoa, this is

greg:

cool.

greg:

Yeah.

greg:

I think it was Dan Levy from Schitt's Creek who said that

greg:

whenever he's talking they gas shit's

kelly:

creek.

greg:

Whenever there he's in, in experiencing a conflict, he remembers his

greg:

mother and she said, listen, when you try to try to focus on what's wrong and then

greg:

focus on what your contributions were.

greg:

Yeah.

greg:

And then just take it

erika:

from there.

erika:

Yes.

erika:

Well, and 'cause you're never gonna be.

erika:

Guilt free.

erika:

And so it's easy to be the martyr or the victim

erika:

but as long as you're in that head space, you're not gonna grow

erika:

and you're not gonna improve.

erika:

Right?

erika:

And so I know exactly what I did to contribute to my firing.

erika:

And I also know that the person I was like, if I do have old coworkers

erika:

or people who knew me back then all I can say is, you don't know me now.

erika:

Like I have changed so much, , by force, by choice.

erika:

I mean, it's been a priority for the last, , 10 years.

erika:

, and see sometimes you don't immediately see the fruits of that work, and

erika:

it can be a little deterring.

erika:

But I just, anybody who, who this resonates with, it's like you just

erika:

have to keep on showing up in the way that feels authentic to you.

kelly:

Yeah, I could not

greg:

agree more.

greg:

And I've, I've, from my own personal journey, I find that it is infinitely

greg:

easier to witness someone's stumble.

greg:

But you have to really be present to, to celebrate someone's evolution.

kelly:

Yes.

kelly:

That's interesting.

kelly:

I love that.

kelly:

I, I was gonna say like, it's cool hearing y'all's stories.

kelly:

'cause for me, I feel like I am an observant person.

kelly:

Mm-hmm.

kelly:

And I think that might be why I am like quote unquote one of the good ones.

kelly:

'cause I'm like watching everything good and like I know what I don't want to be.

kelly:

Yeah.

kelly:

And I know what I, that is a life lesson that we're carrying so far.

kelly:

Wanna, yes.

kelly:

Yeah.

kelly:

And I don't, don't stop that.

kelly:

Yeah.

kelly:

That's huge.

kelly:

I won't you be that you be you.

erika:

It also teaches you too though sometimes the things you

erika:

think you want to be, aren't it?

erika:

Because I, yeah.

erika:

When I opened this place, I wanted to be a millionaire.

erika:

I wanted to have a jillion and that stopped Instagram.

erika:

You don't wanna be a millionaire now.

erika:

Well, I mean, I don't wanna, I like, I don't wanna kill myself working and then

erika:

wake up at 60 with a fat bank account and no relationships or like happiness.

erika:

Yeah.

erika:

So I'd rather be poor and happy than rich and sad.

erika:

But in a perfect world, I'd be rich and happy, you know?

erika:

Well, why Or when you

kelly:

can end, I'm gonna say this.

kelly:

Lightly.

kelly:

'cause there's a lot of stuff in my life going on in this regard, but I, I'm

kelly:

a producer, not sure if anyone knows.

, erika:

and she's 12 twice.

, erika:

Thank you for

kelly:

the clarity.

kelly:

And I'm 12 twice.

kelly:

, but I work with a lot of producers in the Atlanta area.

kelly:

Mm-hmm.

kelly:

And I, one, because I'm very young, I happen to be like smart,

kelly:

which I think is why I've, uh, you are gotten places quicker.

kelly:

Like, I, I truly have done some really cool stuff so far, which is crazy.

kelly:

I can't believe I've done as much as I have right now.

kelly:

And I'm proud of myself for that.

kelly:

But there are people who so discount me because I'm young.

kelly:

Mm-hmm.

kelly:

And then also very much discount me because I'm a woman.

kelly:

I was just about to ask.

kelly:

Yep.

kelly:

And the Atlanta independent film culture, very like, Film, bro.

kelly:

Mm-hmm.

kelly:

Male driven.

kelly:

It's just, it's a whole vibe.

kelly:

Cotui wearing.

kelly:

Yeah.

kelly:

Yes.

kelly:

You don't, it's like you don't know it until you experience it.

kelly:

And then once you experience it, it's just, you have a whole huge idea of what

kelly:

the film industry is here in Atlanta.

kelly:

Yeah.

kelly:

Um, and I don't fit that mold ever good in any regard.

greg:

And I find you refreshing.

greg:

I don't see you.

greg:

Thank you.

greg:

In a lot of moles.

greg:

I mean, I think that I, I,

kelly:

again, I'm, that's what is painful though.

kelly:

Sometimes

erika:

I'm not known for my, because all people

greg:

wanna do is, but again, I think I, again, you are, you,

greg:

you're not a replica of anyone else.

kelly:

Yeah.

kelly:

Yeah.

kelly:

I, I mean, and I love that.

kelly:

But there are times where it is so, like I have gotten outed from jobs in many ways.

kelly:

I've, I've tried to get in with some people and it doesn't happen because

kelly:

they just don't necessarily like me.

kelly:

Yeah.

kelly:

But I know it's because I'm not like a film bro.

erika:

I think people sometimes don't know what to do with a

erika:

confident driven young woman.

erika:

They

kelly:

call me sassy.

kelly:

That's what they do.

kelly:

Oh, right,

erika:

right.

erika:

When it's a woman, you're sassy or you're bitchy.

erika:

When it's a young man, you're a go getter.

erika:

An ambition driven.

erika:

Yes.

erika:

It's so.

erika:

Ridiculous.

erika:

And I absolutely was like that when I was young in my career.

erika:

Yeah.

erika:

I mean, I went in and I'm like, why do we do things this way?

erika:

Why do we do them like this?

erika:

This doesn't make any sense.

erika:

Yeah.

erika:

And I didn't know how I was unrefined.

erika:

Yeah.

erika:

And I've learned now I feel unrefined.

erika:

Yeah.

erika:

Well, and I do.

erika:

I do.

erika:

You're like, you know, a diamond under pressure.

erika:

And like with every year that you're in your career, you're gonna

erika:

learn, Hey, you know, I know the best way to get the result I want.

erika:

And maybe it's not the approach I would've thought, but if I want

erika:

this end goal, I will kind of navigate that however I need to.

erika:

Yeah.

erika:

And it's

greg:

just a learning also, at the end of the day, you want something very specific.

greg:

So why would you think you can find it in the old conventional ways of

kelly:

getting there?

kelly:

Mm-hmm.

kelly:

That's what I was about to say, is I do feel like I am true.

kelly:

Like there is not bending who I am, like I've tried, doesn't work.

kelly:

Yeah, I bet others have too.

kelly:

Miserably.

kelly:

Yeah.

kelly:

It's just, it's terrible.

kelly:

But I find your whole story, Erica, very like inspiring because.

kelly:

I wanna do my own thing in the Atlanta Independent film scene.

kelly:

I wanna do narrative work.

kelly:

A lot of my, peers in the industry only wanna do commercial work, and

kelly:

it kind of leaves this lane for me.

kelly:

Mm-hmm.

kelly:

Which is really cool.

kelly:

I'm working on my second feature this year, which is like absurd.

kelly:

It'll get me into the P G A, which is, oh my god, Kelly a huge deal actually.

kelly:

Can you play golf?

erika:

That's so funny.

erika:

I've actually never even, do you wanna tell our listeners what P g A

kelly:

is?

kelly:

Producers Guild of America, are you striking?

kelly:

Not, I think you're very striking.

kelly:

That's actually, the producers aren't striking and it's kind

kelly:

of really problematic because everyone deserves their rights.

kelly:

And I think I am pro strike.

kelly:

Yes.

kelly:

Nobody come for me.

greg:

It's true.

greg:

Yeah.

greg:

I've got several people in the, in the film

kelly:

industry.

kelly:

Oh yeah.

kelly:

It's, it's tough right now, truly.

kelly:

It is, absolutely.

kelly:

But

greg:

And when you get the, you get the nanny all pissed

greg:

off, you've done something.

kelly:

It's true.

kelly:

But I'm trying to do my own thing is the point.

kelly:

And so watching you do your own thing and like hearing your stories about you

kelly:

doing your own thing is so cool to me.

kelly:

And like the authenticity thing that you have.

kelly:

That you don't necessarily wanna post all this shit on social media,

kelly:

like to bring it back to marketing.

kelly:

Yeah.

kelly:

I also don't wanna be doing that.

kelly:

Like, I'm not trying to see, it's hard to

erika:

make it two D.

erika:

Yeah.

erika:

Like how do you take something so expansive and and real and turn

erika:

it into a fucking Instagram post?

erika:

It's because

kelly:

we're better in person.

erika:

Definitely agree.

erika:

I

greg:

think that, I think that part of your magic is the

greg:

intimacy and the one-on-one.

greg:

This is just a me too, nudge me that says, Hey, there's something out there

greg:

that you might want to get, get more of.

greg:

Yeah.

greg:

Right.

greg:

Yeah.

greg:

Yeah.

greg:

I don't think you, you, this is not the place you won't deliver this.

greg:

No one listening to this podcast will ever get how amazing you are and what

greg:

the experience is when I'm in the salon.

greg:

I mean, it really is top drawer.

greg:

I mean, it's fantastic.

greg:

I get

kelly:

to, she's cutting my hair soon.

kelly:

Oh yeah.

kelly:

That for my wedding, pre wedding glow

erika:

up.

greg:

I listen to you too, ladies talk and I'm, I keep thinking about

greg:

my life and my, and how it parallels in my industry and there's, it, it's

greg:

just sad because so many people that came before you never had the choices

greg:

you have and are stuck where they are.

greg:

Yeah.

greg:

And they may not even know it.

greg:

And what I'm talking about is that in the, , in the eighties and the nineties,

greg:

I think women in my industry, in the multifamily real estate world, they, they

greg:

fought to get their place at the table.

greg:

And to do that, they became such cold, hard bitches.

greg:

Yeah.

greg:

Yep.

greg:

And as it, even, even as it changed.

greg:

They never learned another way.

greg:

Yeah.

greg:

And so you had from across the room when someone walks in

greg:

the door, you could almost see where they joined this industry.

greg:

Yeah.

greg:

You know, so

kelly:

interesting.

kelly:

That makes

greg:

sense because it's like, just wanna say,

kelly:

just let it go there.

kelly:

There is a level in, in my industry where sometimes, like, to be quite

kelly:

frank, sometimes I'm like, I have to be a little bit of a bitch right now.

kelly:

Yeah.

kelly:

I

greg:

think one thing you have in your corner as the both of you ladies,

greg:

is that you are, you are articulate and you can deliver a message

greg:

without being a b i t, c, u and T.

greg:

You can say it in a clever way that's like, oh, oh, I get it now.

kelly:

I try, but there, but there are times where it's like, no, now I have

kelly:

to actually hammer, hammer this down.

kelly:

Is did you not understand?

kelly:

Yeah.

kelly:

Like it, it comes to a point sometimes, especially on a film where It's

kelly:

a pressure cooker on a film.

kelly:

There is so much going on.

kelly:

There's so much money involved and like I'm in charge of that.

kelly:

And there's like so many dynamics when it comes to people being

kelly:

angry about this random thing.

kelly:

Somebody was a vegetarian and we happened to accidentally, accidentally

kelly:

not get a vegetarian lunch.

kelly:

And like, god forbid, like, you know what I say?

kelly:

I'm just like, okay, I will pay for you to go get something else.

kelly:

But there's so mad They're attached to, they're upset and yes.

kelly:

And so there's so much pressure that it come, I've had to scream at people before.

erika:

I would love to see you

kelly:

scream at someone.

kelly:

I scream very nicely.

kelly:

I do.

kelly:

But there are times where I'm like, I'm not messing around.

kelly:

I will fire you.

kelly:

Yeah.

kelly:

Like I can't, I I can't

erika:

handle it.

erika:

Yeah.

erika:

It's not up for debate.

erika:

Go get the veggie sandwich.

kelly:

And, but it comes across like that, which I, I don't

kelly:

feel like is bitchy actually.

kelly:

Just direct on

erika:

myself and

greg:

if anyone ever ask, why are you, do you seem so angry?

greg:

Yes.

greg:

I'm angry that you made me behave this

kelly:

way.

kelly:

Yeah.

kelly:

Because I didn't.

kelly:

It's obviously your fault.

kelly:

I'm a nice person.

kelly:

I'm not trying to be all up your ass right now.

kelly:

Yeah.

kelly:

But you made this happen.

kelly:

It's your fault.

erika:

Yeah.

erika:

I think people know too, like if you're default is to be

erika:

a warm and friendly person.

erika:

Yeah.

erika:

And they see a different side of you.

erika:

Mm-hmm.

erika:

If they know you well enough, you've built enough, you know, brand

erika:

awareness that people are like, yeah, something must have led her to this.

erika:

Or someone she doesn't.

erika:

Or someone.

erika:

Yes.

erika:

But you don't just like walk into a room unprovoked.

erika:

But where does that

kelly:

brand awareness come from, Erica?

kelly:

It comes from one-on-one conversations.

erika:

Mm.

erika:

You're correct.

erika:

Boom, boom, boom.

erika:

It comes from Clover Club.

greg:

I'm, this is the two-on-one, but whatever.

kelly:

What else?

kelly:

I'm just saying like, yeah, I do think that your verion to social media.

kelly:

Is not as big of a deal as necessarily you consider it to

greg:

be fair.

greg:

And actually there is a niche for everything and there is a part or

greg:

a segment of your brand following that appreciates that, that have

greg:

had bad experiences on social media.

greg:

Like why do, why are you taking mother fella pictures

greg:

of your mother fella dinner?

greg:

I don't really care what you're having for meal.

greg:

That stuff.

greg:

Social media is, is is the pendulum swings both ways.

greg:

I do take

kelly:

pictures of my dinner though.

kelly:

I do too.

kelly:

If it's a good

erika:

one.

erika:

Yeah,

kelly:

because like I want people to look and be like, I'm jealous.

kelly:

I guess the thing is I've seen

greg:

too many really bad dinner photos.

greg:

Oh, I people that have you keep you on speaker phone that walk through the,

greg:

the room and I'm like, it would be one thing if your conversation were remotely

greg:

interesting, but apparently it's not.

greg:

So now both of us have to listen to it.

greg:

Oh,

erika:

I hate that.

erika:

Um, I blame The Real Housewives.

erika:

Is that a real housewife thing?

erika:

I'm like, oh yeah, I don't, I'm not down

greg:

with that franchise.

greg:

They would keep it on speaker phone and keep it.

greg:

Six inches away from your head.

greg:

I'm like, just bring

kelly:

it in.

kelly:

Well, because they need the cameras to see, obviously bring it.

erika:

A producer told them that they had to Yes.

kelly:

That's what happened.

kelly:

That's what

erika:

that is.

erika:

, I will be fine if I die without ever seeing another, like half eaten plate

erika:

of food or if like a scraped clean plate and someone's like, who's terrible?

erika:

And I'm just like, ah, fucking

greg:

delete dope.

greg:

Wait, photos of half eaten food.

greg:

Oh yeah.

greg:

You know, people

erika:

like, it's like, I wanna see the carnage thing.

erika:

Yeah.

erika:

I don't wanna see like the moistness of your lips around the fork and some Alfredo

kelly:

sauce.

kelly:

I say phone eats first . Yes.

kelly:

Because it's ugly if it doesn't.

kelly:

Exactly.

kelly:

And pretty food tastes better or pretty tastes better.

kelly:

Phony.

kelly:

Full last where it's nothing on the plate and you're like, O l Sorry.

kelly:

Didn't get the photo.

kelly:

It was too good.

erika:

See, I feel like that one doesn't get posted.

kelly:

No, I've done that before.

erika:

Really?

erika:

Yeah.

erika:

Just

greg:

I don't want, I don't do it.

greg:

Okay.

greg:

Your shined is dimmed a little bit.

greg:

Yeah.

erika:

We found her crack.

greg:

You two are flawed.

greg:

I love it.

greg:

You, you might be human.

erika:

Maybe

erika:

Greg, do you, have you ever had any moments in your career where you had

erika:

a choice to choose a humorous path or a angry or defensive path and you've

erika:

chosen humor and it's benefited you?

greg:

I can think of several off the top of my head.

greg:

And at the end of the day, do you have that moment, that zero

greg:

moment, just like you were sharing?

greg:

It's like someone just declared you're, you're fired.

greg:

Mm-hmm.

greg:

And how do you, and then you try to calculate, how do I respond to this?

greg:

And at the end of the day, At the end of the day, I, I want to retain

greg:

as much character as I possibly can.

greg:

Yes.

greg:

And the quick, easy default for me is to make some humorous default out of that.

greg:

Mm-hmm.

greg:

Or, or, or escape from that, because I don't, I don't wanna be

greg:

a, I don't wanna be an asshole.

greg:

Yeah.

greg:

And if you see me be an asshole, you've done something to cause that.

greg:

Yeah.

greg:

Mm-hmm.

greg:

Right.

greg:

And it's taken a lot to make that happen.

greg:

Yes.

greg:

But at the end of the day, character is a whole lot easier to

greg:

maintain than it is to ever regain.

erika:

Ooh, yes.

erika:

Right.

erika:

That's a great coffee book.

erika:

Yeah.

greg:

So I, I want, I wanna be that one.

greg:

I wanna be that one that walks out with my head held high and said, listen, I

greg:

don't know what just happened, but I can tell you it's not, I don't, I will soul

greg:

search, but I have to think it's probably because you didn't get the situation.

greg:

Mm-hmm.

greg:

You didn't appreciate the situation.

greg:

But that doesn't mean that I'm

kelly:

wrong.

kelly:

Is that a core value of your personhood?

greg:

Honestly, I've used the word twice.

greg:

I think it just might be a default on how I'm wired.

greg:

And it might be interesting.

greg:

Just a trained response behavior.

kelly:

That's interesting.

kelly:

But that's a good trained response behavior.

kelly:

Yeah, it's, it sounds like it's

greg:

a value.

greg:

Oh, hear me.

greg:

Once I sound like I have got it all my shit together.

greg:

Hear me when I say if you wanna let me lose, watch me lose my shit.

greg:

Leave me on a, like a, I could be calling a cable company.

greg:

Oh.

greg:

And I'm stuck in voicemail and I'm screaming at my top of my lungs.

greg:

Representative.

greg:

Oh my

kelly:

God.

kelly:

That, I mean, cracks me up when people do

erika:

that.

erika:

My fiance does.

erika:

That was me.

erika:

That to a Comcast guy just last week.

erika:

It You

greg:

did what?

greg:

Correct.

greg:

I was mean to a Comcast guy.

greg:

Just did it.

greg:

Got engaged.

greg:

Oh my God.

greg:

Oh.

erika:

No, I've only been unengaged

greg:

free cable for Erica.

kelly:

No, that was me.

erika:

Uh, yeah.

erika:

Only one of us is engaged.

erika:

Her name is not Erica.

erika:

It's Kelly.

erika:

It's cut.

erika:

I pick that

greg:

up.

greg:

But thanks for the glue.

greg:

Glue.

kelly:

I'm excited.

erika:

I think knowing your personal brand values is so, so, so important.

erika:

That's something that I am very, vocal about one-on-one in groups, whatever.

erika:

'cause then any decision in life you have to make, you're just like, is this

erika:

in alignment with these core values?

erika:

And if the answer's no, no matter how enticing it is.

erika:

You say no.

erika:

And here's a great example.

erika:

Last year I had the opportunity to move the location of this business to a place.

erika:

I don't even wanna say out loud, but just say it.

erika:

Do you wanna say it?

erika:

I'm not gonna say it.

erika:

Okay.

erika:

Wait, can you just tell me

kelly:

we can delete it.

erika:

I can.

erika:

I'm po city market and I really, maybe we should leave this in.

erika:

I mean, whatever.

erika:

, I really wrestled with this decision because the foot traffic.

erika:

Yeah.

erika:

And what this would do for my brand would be huge.

kelly:

I am so curious about this.

kelly:

So

erika:

the, ultimately that decision was not in alignment with

erika:

my values as Hawkins and Clover as a brand and as Erica as a brand.

erika:

I don't wanna work that hard.

erika:

I wanna be able to work just hard enough that I can be on vacation

erika:

and have Shopify online orders pop up on my phone and know that I can

erika:

have one employee hold down the fort.

erika:

Yeah.

erika:

I don't wanna be tied to my phone.

erika:

I don't care if I have.

erika:

A million dollars a month in sales if my lifestyle is, , just

erika:

revolving around this business.

erika:

And so ultimately, wow.

erika:

I was like, no.

erika:

and I mean, got the cost to, for the build out and what God, what it would take to

erika:

execute that move would've been huge.

erika:

And I was ready.

erika:

I mean, the conversations got very advanced.

erika:

Wow.

erika:

And ultimately, I decided to stay here and I'm so, so

greg:

glad that I did.

greg:

How did you make that decision?

greg:

What, what happened or what, what moment did you say, you know what this is,

greg:

this is, this is where the cost payoff or cost benefit analysis kicked in?

greg:

Because one thing I say to people like, oh my God, I can't

greg:

wait for you to meet Erica.

greg:

She's an amazing person.

greg:

She's got a solid.

greg:

Business.

greg:

I mean, she is, she's making it happen.

greg:

And I enjoy your company.

greg:

I don't say that a lot.

greg:

Not that I don't like people, I'm just saying as a rule, you know, some people

greg:

are givers and some people are takers.

greg:

Yeah.

greg:

As a rule, people enjoy my humor and ultimately they're takers.

greg:

Right?

greg:

Yeah.

greg:

Yeah.

greg:

But you are a giver.

greg:

And for, for me, I wanna say, oh my god, Erica, she's an amazing person.

greg:

She is such, so particular, and she enjoys food so much.

greg:

She will plan trips to travel across the world, to have dinner

greg:

at a specific time mm-hmm.

greg:

At a specific restaurant.

greg:

Mm-hmm.

greg:

From a specific chef.

greg:

She's a traveler to, to have that.

greg:

Experience and she has key people around her to, to share that with.

greg:

That's amazing for me.

greg:

Yeah.

greg:

I'm not that guy and I'm a little jealous of that.

greg:

Well,

kelly:

you can, I'm a little jealous too.

erika:

Listen, next time I plan a trip to Paris to go have dinner.

erika:

I'll invite you both.

erika:

I'll get a beret.

erika:

The key, the secret to that is to not have children.

erika:

Then you can afford to do whatever you want.

erika:

Yes.

erika:

Like Chelsea Handler.

erika:

Exactly.

erika:

My queen.

erika:

I'm very hashtag no kids.

erika:

, and I mean, honestly, that's my biggest career decision has been to not have kids.

erika:

That's the biggest thing I can credit my success to.

erika:

I I would be kneecapped if I did.

erika:

There's no way I could do what I do if

greg:

I had a child and think how many, um, owners of children Yeah.

greg:

That you counsel.

greg:

Every day.

greg:

Yes, correct.

greg:

It's like I can't relate, but I think that sucks for you.

greg:

Yeah.

erika:

Well it is.

erika:

I mean, well, and it sucks for the parents too.

erika:

This is the thing.

erika:

I know.

erika:

I've spent almost 20 years in this industry listening to

erika:

parents complain about their kids.

erika:

I mean, the common denominator is clear.

greg:

And I think it's getting even harder and, and, and their defense.

greg:

I think, I think parenting is the one of the most important fundamental

greg:

roles that anyone can take into or fall

kelly:

into.

kelly:

Yeah.

kelly:

And like in society as a whole, in society as a whole, like, we need good

kelly:

parents to have, back to the whole thing

greg:

about, about making eye contact, saying hello, social graces.

greg:

Yeah.

greg:

You know, manners.

greg:

Those kind of things are falling to the wayside.

greg:

Yes.

greg:

At a, at a super fast rate.

greg:

Yeah.

greg:

And we as a society and as a country, Feeling it every

kelly:

single day.

kelly:

Yeah, I completely

erika:

agree with that.

erika:

Me too.

erika:

And I think for women in particular you can't be 100 at work and 100 at home.

erika:

And so then you're just giving not your all in every facet of

erika:

your life and you can't win.

erika:

And at times frustrated with both.

erika:

Yeah.

erika:

And I like to win and so you can't imagine,

greg:

although this is me and I might be twisted, there is a part of me

greg:

that thinks it would be so awesome to see little miniature Erica.

greg:

I would love the d n a that you created.

greg:

Oof.

kelly:

God.

erika:

Depends.

erika:

So depends who's also contributing.

erika:

There is like I,

kelly:

I have thought about this subject a lot because my

kelly:

career choice is very ridiculous.

kelly:

Like it requires so much time and energy.

kelly:

Yeah.

kelly:

And I don't wanna have kids for a while.

kelly:

Like I know I have a certain age where I want to, but I've decided I want to.

kelly:

Because I kind of wanna see a little mini me and Spencer, like

kelly:

that seems like, yeah, that'd be the coolest kid on the planet.

kelly:

But Spencer brought this subject up and he goes, that's the biological need.

kelly:

That's not the factual need.

kelly:

Yes.

kelly:

That's not the like, logical thing.

kelly:

Yes.

kelly:

Correct.

kelly:

Because the world sucks, let's be honest.

kelly:

Mm-hmm.

kelly:

Like, it's going down a huge rabbit hole of the horribleness.

kelly:

Yes.

kelly:

Like whoever gets born into this world, it's kind of like, we don't

kelly:

want, like, maybe we'll just adopt.

kelly:

'cause like I don't wanna have a kid in this world

greg:

and there's so many kids that need love.

kelly:

Yes.

kelly:

And I, I'm adopted, including, oh, like I, I don't think I know that.

kelly:

I did not know that.

kelly:

Yeah.

kelly:

You should lead with

greg:

that,

kelly:

that, you

erika:

know how I said I overshare the part when we talk shit about adoption,

kelly:

you know how I overshare?

kelly:

I always tell people I'm adopted.

kelly:

Like always.

kelly:

I'm just like me.

kelly:

I'm like, it's.

greg:

And I think that's, I mean, that's her ego.

greg:

I wasn't born, hey, I was chosen.

kelly:

So true.

kelly:

My mom loves me so much as I selected, but I've just come to this and I

kelly:

think it's my biological thing, but I think it's overtaken me.

kelly:

Mm-hmm.

kelly:

I think I'm like, I'm a very instinctual person.

kelly:

Yeah.

kelly:

And so for me it's like, it feels like what I'm meant to do type thing.

kelly:

And you don't

greg:

like to ignore your, your I

kelly:

don't.

kelly:

I don't.

kelly:

. erika: Feel an unwavering

kelly:

You should be a mom.

kelly:

Yeah.

kelly:

I've never wanted kids and so it's not, there was really not

kelly:

even a decision to be made.

kelly:

It's not like I'm choosing my career over it and

kelly:

I just also have never wanted it.

kelly:

I fully respect that.

kelly:

Like I think I.

kelly:

Honestly troubles me that I feel it so hard.

kelly:

I'm like,

erika:

ah.

erika:

Because it'd be more convenient for you if you didn't.

erika:

Yeah,

kelly:

I know.

kelly:

I'm like, damn.

kelly:

Like it can change your friends.

kelly:

I'm gonna

erika:

have to do this thing.

erika:

Wait until your friends start having kids and you're like,

erika:

you know, I'm, I'm not kidding.

erika:

Or like, it'll really

greg:

illuminate things or wait until they do have kids and then

greg:

just spend time with the offspring.

greg:

Right.

erika:

It, it may refine your, your

kelly:

decision.

kelly:

Well, all my cousins have kids and I,

greg:

I think kids are wonderful and I appreciate parents for

greg:

doing what they do because Yeah.

kelly:

I mean, somebody needs to, it's hard.

kelly:

I appreciate, I like that Erica and I have opposite views on this.

kelly:

Yeah.

kelly:

Because I think that that's important.

kelly:

I think both sides are very, very equal.

kelly:

Oh, absolutely.

kelly:

There's no right or wrong.

kelly:

Yeah.

kelly:

There is not.

kelly:

There's wrong for you.

kelly:

It's literally not.

kelly:

Yeah.

kelly:

Yes.

kelly:

And I just find it fun.

kelly:

I'm like, cool, we get to have this cool dialogue.

kelly:

Yes.

kelly:

I

erika:

don't know.

erika:

Yeah, I, I think it's super interesting, but I think at the end of the day,

erika:

women need to feel empowered to make that decision for themselves.

erika:

Agreed.

erika:

And there's so much pressure, to procreate.

erika:

And if you don't want to, your kid's gonna pick up on that.

erika:

And that's not really a great environment to create a human.

greg:

Yes.

greg:

I think there's so many things that we, there's so many there,

greg:

topics or categories that we, we, we, we are relentless with

greg:

and, and our friends and our.

greg:

Our friends and loved ones around us.

greg:

Mm-hmm.

greg:

It's like, why does it, why when people don't drink alcohol,

greg:

why is that so weird for us?

greg:

Why do we wanna force them to do that?

greg:

True.

greg:

Why do at the family reunions, why do you, while the, your parents say,

greg:

oh my God, you've met a good guy yet.

greg:

Yeah.

greg:

You got married yet you had a kid yet.

greg:

I mean, all that stuff.

greg:

It's like I, I joke in my head, I'm like, all the times that I was at a

greg:

wedding and old people come up to me like, oh my gosh, I guess you're next.

greg:

I can't wait to start saying that at funerals to old people.

greg:

Yes.

greg:

I love

erika:

that you're next.

erika:

Yes.

erika:

It's so annoying.

erika:

It's like there's this pre-prescribed way that you're supposed to live life

erika:

and you just check off these boxes.

erika:

I think we lost Kelly Kelly's dying over here.

erika:

I

kelly:

loved that she can't wait for her next funeral.

kelly:

I love that.

kelly:

Like that really got me.

kelly:

I love that one.

kelly:

That's a good one.

erika:

But yeah, people just need to talk

greg:

about it.

greg:

It's, and the thing is, I, I wanna give them every benefit of the doubt.

greg:

I think people just say stupid things, because again, I think that as a, as

greg:

a people and a species and as a human race, we don't own conversation anymore.

greg:

Mm.

greg:

It's just banter.

greg:

Yeah.

greg:

You know, and people are surface level.

greg:

They're not, they're saying things carelessly because maybe I'll mean

greg:

it, but they've heard someone else ask that very same thing or make that

greg:

very same comment or observation.

greg:

Yes.

greg:

That force need to be much.

greg:

Yes.

greg:

If you were truly talking to that person, those things wouldn't

greg:

be part of their conversation.

greg:

Correct.

erika:

Yeah.

erika:

'cause they're just parroting this narrative.

erika:

Yeah.

erika:

That's been shoved down everyone's throat.

erika:

That's one of my favorite things about my job is in that one-on-one

erika:

time with my clients, all of those kind of, Filters drop away.

erika:

And I get this authentic connection with people.

erika:

Oh, absolutely.

erika:

And so many moms are suffering in silence and they feel like they can't

erika:

say that they're unhappy, bad about saying 'cause they feel bad about it.

erika:

And they've had these big baby showers and their friends

erika:

have bought them all the shit.

erika:

And they're going through all these steps and doing these things that

erika:

they, they're, they feel guilty for not enjoying this thing.

erika:

And maybe they really wanted it.

erika:

And now that they have it, they're like, this sucks.

erika:

Wow.

erika:

And I'm super fortunate that people feel safe sharing that with me.

erika:

I just wish more people would share that because so many people would

erika:

make different choices if they had the exposure that if they said those things

kelly:

out loud.

kelly:

Yes, a hundred percent.

kelly:

'cause it is very silent.

kelly:

Oh my

erika:

God.

erika:

Yeah.

erika:

I think a smile and be happy.

erika:

Your kid's healthy.

greg:

Yeah.

greg:

I think you, I think people in a chair, a hair chair and people at a bar.

greg:

Yeah.

greg:

At a bartender.

greg:

Yes.

greg:

And a therapist.

greg:

They, they are very.

greg:

Aligned in, in how people approach those conversations or strangers at an airport?

greg:

Hell yeah.

greg:

You can say, I can say things to a stranger that I would

greg:

never say to people I know.

greg:

Absolutely.

greg:

And sometimes that helps 'cause I get it out and I don't have to own that anymore.

greg:

Yes.

erika:

I'm gonna leave that in Tampa.

erika:

I mean,

kelly:

truthfully though, like it circles back to me being

kelly:

so, like, such an oversharer.

kelly:

Yeah.

kelly:

I say it to everyone, like my friends, my family, my fiance.

kelly:

I just like, like word vomit.

kelly:

I wonder these

greg:

intense things.

greg:

I wonder, I like what you're really manifesting when you say all that.

greg:

Well, I'm, I'm the

kelly:

secret.

kelly:

I do, I fully do think like what, what we all were just saying

kelly:

is like people are so silent.

kelly:

Yeah.

kelly:

And it's truthfully such a awful thing because it's a boar.

kelly:

Absolutely.

kelly:

Yeah.

kelly:

It's a boar for one.

kelly:

Yeah.

kelly:

But then also like, Like the mental health crisis that's

kelly:

going on right now after Yes.

kelly:

Like it is so pervasive.

kelly:

Yeah.

kelly:

No one talks about it.

kelly:

No one shares it.

kelly:

Yeah.

kelly:

And so hearing that, my friends are going through that.

kelly:

Mm-hmm.

kelly:

And my friends hearing that I am, because my friends see me as, truthfully, they do

kelly:

see me as like a super confident person.

kelly:

Like, like Greg at parties.

kelly:

I'm that like, I am the like extrovert in the situation.

kelly:

Yeah.

kelly:

I'm the confident one.

kelly:

But for me to tell them that I also have these like mental health issues.

kelly:

Yes.

kelly:

Yes.

kelly:

Like, I think that's so important.

kelly:

I completely agree.

kelly:

100 and I wanna hear that from my friends too.

kelly:

Mm-hmm.

kelly:

I don't want it all the time and I don't want it like in this, I'm not familiar.

kelly:

When it's convenient for me, I'd love to hear it.

kelly:

No, like not in this like overly burdensome way.

kelly:

Yeah.

kelly:

But in just like a lighthearted like I know conversation of

kelly:

like, I struggle with that too.

kelly:

Yeah.

kelly:

Because

greg:

if I'm interested, I'm a great listener.

erika:

Yeah, right.

erika:

I am.

kelly:

But really, I agree with that.

kelly:

It's just no one ever talks about anything.

kelly:

So I think part of me is just like, let me just say everything, because who cares?

kelly:

Really?

erika:

I think everyone should take a dose of that because it just makes

erika:

things, every auth, every relationship you have is more authentic that way

erika:

if you're showing up as yourself.

greg:

Yeah.

greg:

And I think that, and when people can share that, that realness, I'm not

greg:

gonna say vulnerability, but I don't think that's, I don't think that's true.

greg:

I think it's just that realness with each other.

greg:

It becomes more of a habit and I think we do more of it.

greg:

Mm-hmm.

greg:

Yeah.

greg:

Um, and so maybe when other people do that and you hear it, maybe you

greg:

should acknowledge it and reward it.

kelly:

I agree.

kelly:

I agree.

kelly:

I think I personally, I could be better at that.

kelly:

I could be like, thank you for telling me that.

kelly:

Like I, so that might not have been easy

greg:

to say.

greg:

Yeah.

greg:

You're so, because

kelly:

I know wasn't easy to hear.

kelly:

It does come naturally to me, but that doesn't mean it comes naturally to others.

greg:

Absolutely.

greg:

Yes.

greg:

And especially with, it's new to that, Hey, you've never

greg:

shared like this with me before.

greg:

I appreciate that.

greg:

Yeah.

greg:

That means something to me.

greg:

Yeah.

greg:

I like that.

greg:

That means you're investing in our relationship.

kelly:

Yes.

kelly:

I agree.

kelly:

I think that's a really important thing.

kelly:

Absolutely.

kelly:

Something I never really thought about before.

kelly:

I,

greg:

that's the reason I ask that about, hey, you're, what you're,

greg:

you're oversharing at the beginning of the, of the, of the conversation.

greg:

Yeah.

greg:

Is it all positive?

greg:

Because I I do love that in some ways.

greg:

Yeah.

greg:

And that, because I've always believed you should always say the goodness out loud.

greg:

I love that happiness is an option.

greg:

Yes.

greg:

You know, and I think like when I, I look back when I'm, I'm gonna age myself.

greg:

When I was a kid watching cartoons on Saturday morning,

greg:

and the super friends were my.

greg:

Favorite show.

greg:

Right.

greg:

And they were bang before Soul Train.

greg:

But if Soul Train came on, you never heard it.

greg:

Cartoons were over, right?

greg:

Done.

greg:

Done.

greg:

So on the Super Friends, it was like, Superman, what am I, Batman?

greg:

But they always would say what they're, they were using the superpowers

greg:

and they would say it out loud.

greg:

Superman would say, I'm using my X revision to look through that wall.

greg:

Yeah, we got that.

greg:

But they said, the goodness out loud.

greg:

I'm thinking, oh my God, that makes such difference.

greg:

Yeah.

greg:

That that amplifies everything.

greg:

Because it also, it also breaks down miscommunication and

kelly:

misunderstanding.

kelly:

Yes.

kelly:

Well, I think that perspective is really interesting because I don't

kelly:

necessarily say the goodness out loud.

kelly:

Like I tend to say things that are the realness out loud.

kelly:

The, yeah, the, I like it.

kelly:

So, but it's your version.

kelly:

But like also I.

kelly:

Would like to maybe say more positive things out loud too.

kelly:

I've, I don't, and I don't think I do it as much.

greg:

I don't know you, I've only known you in this conversation, but

greg:

I can only say that your delivery has an intonation of positivity True.

greg:

That you cannot ignore.

greg:

True,

kelly:

true.

kelly:

I do keep things lighthearted, mostly because of my

greg:

own.

greg:

You could say I run with scissors and I'm like, oh, that's adorable.

erika:

So cute.

erika:

In that top,

greg:

in those

kelly:

shoes, they are like platform sandals.

kelly:

They're very

erika:

cute.

erika:

I could not run with

kelly:

scissors in them

erika:

truthfully.

erika:

You could hustle real quick.

kelly:

I would follow my face.

kelly:

I struggle going down the stairs in these shoes.

kelly:

Oh, careful.

erika:

Here, please.

erika:

No, I, I have the relevance, but oh my gosh.

erika:

Well, this has been, uh, the most delightful conversation.

erika:

I agree.

erika:

And I think that the key takeaways are we all need to show up authentically.

erika:

We, Greg, what's one of your takeaways?

erika:

We each name one of our takeaways.

greg:

I think we should, we should, , say how we feel to people

greg:

that matter in our lives more often.

greg:

Oh,

erika:

real quick, that reminds me of one of my favorite sayings that's gonna

erika:

go on my deck, which is those who mind don't matter and those who matter.

erika:

Don't mind with what you're sharing.

erika:

You know what I mean?

erika:

Oh yeah.

erika:

Like cue.

erika:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

erika:

I like that.

erika:

Yeah,

kelly:

your turn.

kelly:

I think my biggest takeaway, honestly, Greg, what you told me just now really

kelly:

did strike a chord with me of like encouraging other people to share.

kelly:

Yeah.

kelly:

And like maybe, maybe what that means is like for me, creating a safe space

kelly:

for them, which I think I do, but also showing gratitude for that even though

kelly:

there's like a safe space, but then also being like, Hey, that was really cool.

kelly:

I actually really appreciate you doing that.

kelly:

Yes.

kelly:

Because that is what I like in others, and I do think it's a practice.

kelly:

Because I've done it so much, I feel very comfortable.

kelly:

Yes.

kelly:

But other people don't necessarily feel that way.

kelly:

And so for me to say, oh, I loved that.

kelly:

Like I'm really happy that we're able to have this conversation in a deeper way.

kelly:

Yeah.

kelly:

Could be really beneficial for like the world as a whole, but also just

kelly:

my own relationship with my friends.

kelly:

Right.

kelly:

Yeah.

kelly:

So I really valued that.

kelly:

That was my big takeaway.

kelly:

That's a great takeaway.

kelly:

Yeah.

kelly:

Also that I, I just, I think Erica's whole story was like really kind of

kelly:

a positive, booster for my own life.

kelly:

I think I could like, like take some things from that.

kelly:

I hope so.

kelly:

And because I am, I wanna be my own business owner, you know?

kelly:

. And so it's really cool to see somebody doing that and like hear more about it.

kelly:

'cause I know you as a person, but.

kelly:

Hearing more and like hearing your stories over and over again, which

kelly:

we're gonna do through this podcast.

kelly:

I think will just like further inspire me and like, I just like that.

kelly:

I

erika:

love hearing that.

erika:

That is literally why we're here.

erika:

So I do

greg:

have one more

erika:

takeaway.

erika:

Okay.

erika:

Just

greg:

one that, , I think smiles are contagious, but

greg:

then again, so is chlamydia.

greg:

So keep smiling but get tested.

kelly:

And on that note,

erika:

thank you.

erika:

Definitely get tested.

erika:

, yes, . Thank you

greg:

ladies.

greg:

Yes.

greg:

We'll,

kelly:

I've had a great time.

kelly:

Thank you Greg.

kelly:

We so appreciate you.

kelly:

Thank you so much, Greg.

kelly:

It was great talking to you and getting to know you for the past three hours.

kelly:

I don't know how long we've been here.

kelly:

But's

greg:

just gonna whittle this down to 17 minutes.

greg:

Yep,

kelly:

exactly.

kelly:

Somehow, some way maybe.

kelly:

Oh, we got this.

kelly:

Thank you so much for listening to today's episode.

kelly:

We hope you enjoyed it.

kelly:

And if you did, please consider leaving us a review or sharing on social media.

kelly:

You can find us at Clover club pod on Instagram.

kelly:

And don't forget.

kelly:

Clover club listeners get 10% off@hawkinsandclover.com.

kelly:

Just use code Clover club, all caps.

kelly:

Bye.

kelly:

Bye.

erika:

Bye.

kelly:

We harmonized our

erika:

buys.

Next Episode All Episodes Previous Episode
Clover Club Email Opt In

Clover Club Email Opt In

Thank you, you have been subscribed.

Listen for free

Show artwork for Clover Club

About the Podcast

Clover Club
Curious conversations and stories intended to make you laugh and learn.
As a shop owner and hair stylist with an impressive number of stamps on her passport, Erika Audrey has heard or experienced it all. And she's ready to share. These real life conversations and stories will make you laugh, cry, and gasp- sometimes in the same episode! Join Erika Audrey straight from Atlanta gift shop Hawkins & Clover. Welcome to Clover Club.

Thank you-
Theme Song: Nick Pantano of Sound Space https://www.soundspaceatl.com
Branding: Shari Margolin https://sharimargolindesignco.com

Contact-
pod@hawkinsandclover.com

About your host

Profile picture for Erika Audrey

Erika Audrey

Erika Audrey, a luminous presence hailing from the vibrant city of Atlanta, Georgia, is not your ordinary hairstylist and boutique owner. With a zest for life that's as contagious as her laughter, Erika is poised to take the podcasting world by storm as she embarks on her latest venture.

Launching her debut podcast is a natural extension of Erika's multifaceted personality. With an uncanny ability to seamlessly weave humor into her conversations, Erika's laughter-inducing anecdotes and razor-sharp wit are bound to captivate listeners. Her intelligence shines through as she tackles a diverse range of topics, proving that beneath the laughter lies substance and insight.