Episode 10

Landscape Architecture and Ghosts, Oh my!

Published on: 23rd October, 2023

Join host Erika Audrey in this fascinating episode of Clover Club, featuring special guest landscape architect and urban designer Jennie Lynn Rudder. Together, they explore the unique world of cemeteries, civil engagement, spine-tingling ghost stories, and a discussion of the Bechdel test. Tune in for an engaging conversation that uncovers the unexpected connections between these diverse topics.

Bechdel Test- https://bechdeltest.com/

Atlanta NPU- https://www.npuatlanta.org/

Krewe of Grateful Gluttons- https://www.weirdgonepro.com/atlanta-beltline-lantern-parade

Archive Atlanta- https://www.archiveatlantapodcast.com/

Article about Atlanta's hidden creeks- https://www.atlantamagazine.com/great-reads/the-scent-of-water-searching-for-hidden-springs-in-downtown-atlanta/

American Society of Landscape Architects Climate Action Plan - https://www.asla.org/climateactionplan.aspx

Cemetery Nerd- https://www.instagram.com/cemetery_nerd/

Transcript
Erika:

Welcome to Clover club.

2

:

Everyone.

3

:

I'm so excited today because.

4

:

Guess who's

5

:

Kelly: back.

6

:

It's me.

7

:

Good.

8

:

Pause it or something.

9

:

I'm sure.

10

:

It's me.

11

:

It's Kelly.

12

:

Hi,

13

:

Erika: everyone.

14

:

Kelly is back.

15

:

She has been married for

a month, but don't worry.

16

:

She's still posting

17

:

Kelly: about it.

18

:

Okay.

19

:

I got my wedding photos in yesterday.

20

:

Thank you very much.

21

:

Erika: I will tell you.

22

:

As annoying as it.

23

:

Your pictures

24

:

Kelly: are so good.

25

:

Uh, I know, right.

26

:

Erika: Legit.

27

:

It looks like they came

28

:

Kelly: out of a magazine.

29

:

So we hired this woman

who only shoots film.

30

:

I love.

31

:

But it's also like a really risky

thing to do for your wedding.

32

:

Like that is like a really, oh,

she was your only photography.

33

:

It was one camera.

34

:

The whole time with film that like, could

easily be flashed or damaged or like

35

:

any of those are like the processing.

36

:

Yeah.

37

:

So many things could've gone wrong with

it, but it ended up being so perfect.

38

:

Erika: I love that.

39

:

What's up with you,

anything as cool as that.

40

:

I don't know how to compete with that.

41

:

I'm just like drowning in

enthusiasm for our guest today.

42

:

Yeah.

43

:

So I would love to introduce Jenny

Lynn redder, my favorite landscape

44

:

architect and urban designer.

45

:

And if that sounds familiar it's

because I referenced in episode one

46

:

that I know a landscape architect.

47

:

Who illuminated me to this

world of non boring things.

48

:

And so we've brought her

here today to get spooky.

49

:

And intrigued.

50

:

And informed about all things,

landscape architecture and urban design.

51

:

So Jenny Lynn, hi, and

welcome to clever cloud.

52

:

Hi, welcome.

53

:

Hi, thank you.

54

:

Thank you.

55

:

, so, okay.

56

:

Jenny Lynn.

57

:

A lot of people hear landscape

architecture and they think land escaping.

58

:

So I want to immediately debunk

or untangle those two professions.

59

:

The people know what you actually do.

60

:

I kind of don't know what you do at all.

61

:

It's not landscaping.

62

:

I can tell you that I'm interested.

63

:

. So.

64

:

Landscaping, unfortunately,

not a thing that I'm great at.

65

:

But landscape architecture.

66

:

And modestly.

67

:

Is.

68

:

Sure land scape, uh, break it

into two words, like land and

69

:

scape, the shaping of the land.

70

:

And that's what landscape architects do.

71

:

We are.

72

:

Licensed nationally.

73

:

There's a very specific professional.

74

:

Designation there's

liability associated with it.

75

:

, so there's like a little definition

of landscape architecture, and

76

:

then there's how I experienced it.

77

:

So.

78

:

I've see it as pretty much anything

between buildings, even sighting

79

:

buildings is something that we would have.

80

:

Sway over.

81

:

So if you look outside, you see

a lot of plants, but you also see

82

:

like rolling Hills and streets and.

83

:

Sidewalks and, you know, water

running off the edge of the streets,

84

:

which we'll talk a lot about.

85

:

Cause I love storm water.

86

:

Like a lot.

87

:

Let's give architects are not

necessarily the only people who

88

:

touch this things, but that's a,

that's a thing that we can design.

89

:

Okay.

90

:

So it's kind of like an all

encompassing broad stroke of what.

91

:

The landscape is so even roads.

92

:

With caveats, there are

transportation engineers who do this.

93

:

Pacific's of the road design.

94

:

, but often we're called on to.

95

:

Either lay out the sort of

overall field of roads or look

96

:

at ways to make them work better.

97

:

And then one big thing that landscape

architects do is we work really

98

:

closely with other professions.

99

:

I see.

100

:

And because we're.

101

:

I would say really well-informed about all

these different, professional subsets.

102

:

We are really good at, , getting

people to talk to one another.

103

:

And so instead of having like an

engineered road that looks like.

104

:

Kelly.

105

:

Let's get for architects, a podcast.

106

:

. So is there an example of this?

107

:

I would think is, , recently there

was a sink hole in our neck of

108

:

the woods and they had just , I

built a road over a Creek, I

109

:

think is the reason that happened.

110

:

And so it sounds like that would be an

opportunity for the road people and the

111

:

you people to have had a conversation

that maybe didn't happen is that it was

112

:

a pretty old road at a pretty old Creek.

113

:

So not, not shocked, but yes, , And

Atlanta, there are all of these creeks

114

:

that Atlanta's on a relative high point.

115

:

Yeah.

116

:

And we're also on the

subcontinental divide.

117

:

So actually we're physically

recording this place very near

118

:

the subcontinental divide, which.

119

:

Like rainfall's over there.

120

:

It goes to the Gulf and if it falls over

there, it goes to the Atlanta, Goshen.

121

:

Oh, wow.

122

:

So Atlanta's built over a bunch

of creeks that used to drain the

123

:

city, , before it was a city.

124

:

And what was it before?

125

:

It was the city.

126

:

It was woods.

127

:

It was forest.

128

:

It was, , native lands.

129

:

Yeah.

130

:

. Uh, and I'm not going to go too deep

into the history of Atlanta, but

131

:

suffice to say it doesn't have Atlanta.

132

:

Yes.

133

:

And, , at one point the things that

were creeks and streams were used

134

:

to drain waste away from the city.

135

:

And so historically the higher

points of the city or more desirable.

136

:

Because there were sort of above

that drainage pattern and they

137

:

didn't flood so much with combined.

138

:

Sewage.

139

:

Okay.

140

:

, and one of those creeks

runs under Ponce de Leon.

141

:

We're talking about where

there was a sink hole.

142

:

And so.

143

:

Like the 1920s, Atlanta

built their sewer system.

144

:

Okay.

145

:

And they built over this Creek.

146

:

And.

147

:

There are a bunch of places where we've

built over creeks and that's one of them.

148

:

So it flows through our combined sewer.

149

:

And when it rains, sometimes I

don't actually know about that one

150

:

specifically, but sometimes you get

backups that are not just rainwater.

151

:

well, which is pretty gross.

152

:

Yeah.

153

:

Is that an Atlanta specific

issue or is that something

154

:

common than lots of urban areas?

155

:

Common in lots of urban areas.

156

:

Okay.

157

:

I would say newer cities

don't have so much of that.

158

:

They've been able to build

their sanitary, sewer,

159

:

and storm sewer separately.

160

:

Okay.

161

:

But older cities definitely have that.

162

:

And Atlanta has been working, especially

since the late nineties to separate

163

:

out our sewer systems, but it's a

lot of work and it's very expensive.

164

:

Yeah.

165

:

Yeah.

166

:

Yeah.

167

:

So I have a question.

168

:

Is this more of a like government.

169

:

Type job or is it, or is it more

private firm type things or both?

170

:

I assume both.

171

:

It's a really good question.

172

:

I'm curious about the difference, , so it

is both the weird thing about landscape

173

:

architecture, one of several weird things.

174

:

Is that you can do it

in all different ways.

175

:

So there are people who are landscapers,

who are landscape architects.

176

:

I'm just not one of them.

177

:

Got it.

178

:

There are also landscape architects.

179

:

You primarily practice in the public

realm, things like parks and open spaces.

180

:

There are people who primarily

practice the private realm and just

181

:

do high-end residential help people

with their really nice houses.

182

:

Yeah.

183

:

Make their swimming pools.

184

:

Spectacular.

185

:

Um, and then there are

people who do other private.

186

:

Landscape architecture that might be a

skyscraper with a pool on the roof or.

187

:

You know, whatever it could be, that

they're all different client types.

188

:

So in my current role, . I'm

like 50, 50 working with public

189

:

and institutional groups.

190

:

And private.

191

:

Okay.

192

:

But it's all like large

commercial, private and no.

193

:

Yeah, single residential.

194

:

Okay.

195

:

Interesting.

196

:

So there there's just all

forms of it, realistically.

197

:

There are, it's a weird profession.

198

:

Yeah.

199

:

I mean, it sounds cool though.

200

:

It's so cool.

201

:

Yeah.

202

:

One thing that Jenny Lynn, that you

explained to me once was, , and you

203

:

already touched on this, but the way

that that runoff goes into lower income

204

:

areas, And I hadn't necessarily parsed

out the , Socio economic integration

205

:

until landscape architecture.

206

:

And I'm looking very interested in that.

207

:

It is a really interesting topic because

so much of equity is played out in

208

:

the land and where people live in.

209

:

Sometimes it's where

people choose to live.

210

:

And sometimes there's not so much of

a choice and where we choose to put

211

:

our waste, whether it's physical.

212

:

You know, , there are going to

be places that are, , negatively

213

:

impacted by urban life.

214

:

And we.

215

:

Tend to not do a very thoughtful job.

216

:

Uh, placing those things or

they're thoughtful in some ways,

217

:

but maybe not fully considered.

218

:

Yes.

219

:

So talking about something like,

, sewage overflow, which is a fun topic.

220

:

So I recently got

my, , received my master.

221

:

And urban design from Georgia tech.

222

:

Wow.

223

:

A boss.

224

:

Very impressive.

225

:

Working while working.

226

:

Wow.

227

:

That's even more impressive.

228

:

Yeah.

229

:

But the reason I dropped that is

because I got the opportunity to

230

:

study some things in more depth than

I would have maybe gotten to do.

231

:

And just like straight professional

practice, where you have to think

232

:

about like your billing rate and.

233

:

Right.

234

:

Making sure that you're profitable.

235

:

Yes.

236

:

, I got to study some

areas and west Atlanta.

237

:

Where.

238

:

Along Proctor Creek.

239

:

, there there's just been this huge

legacy of landfills and sewage

240

:

overflow and all kinds of things

happening because it was once outside

241

:

of the city limits of Atlanta.

242

:

Now it's inside the city

limits and Atlanta has.

243

:

For decades sort of used that for.

244

:

Disposal.

245

:

, which is terrible and there are.

246

:

These like really phenomenal

neighborhoods there who have been

247

:

dealing with this for generations.

248

:

And so looking at how.

249

:

Policy and this like really a high-level

wonky stuff impacts people's day-to-day

250

:

lives has been really interesting to me.

251

:

And I don't think I would've

gotten to study that except

252

:

for this urban design thing.

253

:

Yeah.

254

:

Wow.

255

:

Very interesting.

256

:

I heard you all call someone

out for being boring a couple of

257

:

weeks ago, I was like, damn it.

258

:

I'm going to be boring.

259

:

No, he was.

260

:

That was so.

261

:

Brian.

262

:

Oh, my God.

263

:

Sometimes banks do business on the state.

264

:

That's not the state.

265

:

Oh, my God.

266

:

Yeah.

267

:

Sorry, Brian.

268

:

You were like, Nope.

269

:

Yeah, let's talk about

what if I'm trouble.

270

:

And that's.

271

:

What we do.

272

:

Okay.

273

:

Recently.

274

:

Jenny Lynn informed me about some.

275

:

Cemeteries and grave

sites and, Things in.

276

:

Immediate vicinity that

I didn't know about.

277

:

BU.

278

:

I know I was going to try to do like

a witch laugh, but I cannot do that.

279

:

Try that.

280

:

You sound exactly like, , the

beekeeper to the west.

281

:

So, yes.

282

:

Cemeteries they're everywhere.

283

:

Yes.

284

:

Yeah.

285

:

We're very near a big one.

286

:

From Oakland cemetery right now.

287

:

Can we say where we are?

288

:

Is.

289

:

Like stocker central.

290

:

No, no, no, we definitely can.

291

:

Okay.

292

:

Yeah.

293

:

It's like a wide, it's a huge cemetery.

294

:

It really can be anywhere.

295

:

Three block radius.

296

:

Yeah.

297

:

And near Oakland cemetery.

298

:

Exactly.

299

:

But yes.

300

:

So cemeteries and bodies.

301

:

Are all over the bias.

302

:

Yeah.

303

:

And, So, prior to Western settlement

of the us, there were native grounds

304

:

that we like regularly desecrated.

305

:

So that's a thing that we will

also hold in the back from.

306

:

And since we talk about this,

but the ones that I know the most

307

:

about are like early settlers.

308

:

Who.

309

:

What time period are we talking?

310

:

When you say early settlers?

311

:

I would say mid 18 hundreds.

312

:

Okay.

313

:

I'm in Atlanta.

314

:

Okay.

315

:

, so.

316

:

There were, you know, homesteads,

if people who first moved to

317

:

what they considered the woods.

318

:

And got these giant parcels of

the land from the government

319

:

dividing up native territories.

320

:

And they lived on this land.

321

:

And then if you died, you likely

were interred near where you lived.

322

:

And over time, those old

homesteads became lake.

323

:

Downtown Atlanta.

324

:

And so there are people who are varied

and really prominent places downtown,

325

:

and there's a potential grave site.

326

:

We've located in, , Virginia Highland.

327

:

That there's been a bunch of

conversation about recently because

328

:

it's behind someone's private residence.

329

:

Or may not be respecting that grave site.

330

:

And it got us talking about

like all these different places.

331

:

Like there are cemeteries

that, , aren't marked because.

332

:

Prior to, oh, I don't even know

when this was, at some point it

333

:

became common to have perpetual

maintenance agreements on cemeteries.

334

:

So if you have.

335

:

Are buried or interred than like

they're going to keep mowing the lawn.

336

:

You're.

337

:

Stone or marker is

going to be maintained.

338

:

I've heard of that.

339

:

Prior, there were not perpetual

maintenance agreements.

340

:

And so you own this tiny little piece

of property that you are varied in.

341

:

Yeah.

342

:

And then maybe your descendants

don't know about it.

343

:

And so there.

344

:

All these little, super

contested bits of land.

345

:

That may or may not be documented.

346

:

And then there are people who are

varied in them who may or may not be.

347

:

Known about.

348

:

Wow.

349

:

That's all over the place.

350

:

Like this is pretty regular.

351

:

That.

352

:

Like nationwide.

353

:

Yes.

354

:

But especially in older cities.

355

:

Okay.

356

:

Oh, I see.

357

:

Wow.

358

:

And on the east coast, there's

a lot of, Disrespected graves.

359

:

One area that we were talking

about was in west Atlanta.

360

:

Because again, I'm sure this is

all over, but that's the area that

361

:

I was studying in school recently.

362

:

, there are a number of cemeteries out there

and it's because the street car, when it

363

:

first existed in the early 19 hundreds.

364

:

Went out to that area and people

didn't really have private cars.

365

:

And so if you needed to move like a.

366

:

Body.

367

:

And maybe some mourners.

368

:

The most efficient way to

do that was on street car.

369

:

They're like toward sort of the end

of the line, there are a number of

370

:

cemeteries and many of them didn't have

the perpetual maintenance agreements.

371

:

So I walked around Hollywood

cemetery, which is still intact.

372

:

But a lot of the areas around it,

you can see an old maps of Atlanta

373

:

were marked as cemetery and are now

very much not marked as cemetery.

374

:

And I did not find any evidence

that remains were moved.

375

:

So, and are these residences commercial,

what's on top of these former cemeteries.

376

:

There were residences.

377

:

Okay, so people totally

unknowing could just buy a house.

378

:

Wow.

379

:

That is on top of a former graveyard.

380

:

Yes.

381

:

And the, and the, um,

382

:

I just, wow, that's insane.

383

:

. . But yeah, I think a lot of times it's just

that people don't know what's on their

384

:

property and then sometimes there are like

unscrupulous developers or contractors.

385

:

, yeah.

386

:

It's hard to know, which is.

387

:

I'll take a gap.

388

:

Is there a way to like tell

without like digging up the.

389

:

Yard, like, is there a S yes.

390

:

Okay.

391

:

Cool.

392

:

Going to hire who can locate.

393

:

, human remains without digging.

394

:

So for example, there's this

Atlanta, site that used to be.

395

:

Brick works.

396

:

, near the confluence of the

Chattahoochee and Peachtree Creek.

397

:

So also west Atlanta, but not the

part I was previously talking about.

398

:

Okay.

399

:

And, There were a lot of really

terrible labor practices that happened.

400

:

Then this was pretty soon after

the civil war and you could be

401

:

forced onto like a chain gang.

402

:

or you can be as a prisoner

loaned out to do hard labor

403

:

and people would make bricks.

404

:

Yeah, it's terrifying.

405

:

Oh, my God.

406

:

That's like a crazy word to hear in

conjunction with like a human being.

407

:

Sorry, I just want to make

sure I heard that right?

408

:

Yep.

409

:

Yep.

410

:

You are.

411

:

Hearing that correct?

412

:

Continue.

413

:

So , this site, was.

414

:

Owned by a railroad.

415

:

And then they were going to sell

it to an industrial developer.

416

:

And city of Atlanta ultimately purchased

it, but there's this whole concern about

417

:

people being perhaps interred on that

site, who weren't documented because.

418

:

It wouldn't have

necessarily been documented.

419

:

And so there are groups who can go out

and help identify where people might be

420

:

if they are there, which I don't know

for sure that they are, but definitely

421

:

the stories are told that they are.

422

:

That's so interesting.

423

:

Yeah.

424

:

And scary.

425

:

, are there super natural things that

happen at these sites that also come

426

:

up when you're researching them?

427

:

Interesting question.

428

:

So the places where I've been, where I can

know that there are, , you know, people.

429

:

Interred are not the.

430

:

Places where I have synced ghostly things.

431

:

And although I do not necessarily

believe in ghosts, I wouldn't a hundred

432

:

percent have had like, experiences

that I don't know how else to explain.

433

:

Hmm.

434

:

. One of them was on a site visit

in Florida, like 15 years ago.

435

:

It was this old cattle ranch.

436

:

And the whole property was being

looked at for redevelopment.

437

:

Is this newer, but it's

a mixed use community.

438

:

And I was helping do the,

the land plan for that.

439

:

This is another thing that

landscape architects can do.

440

:

And we were touring the property.

441

:

And as we approached this one

giant ancient tree along the

442

:

water's edge, the sky darkened.

443

:

And that it started pouring down rain.

444

:

And I just, I mean, it's

Florida, sometimes it rains,

445

:

but like I had this just.

446

:

Horrific sickly feeling.

447

:

Oh, my God.

448

:

And then like, as , the rain cleared

up after we went away from it.

449

:

But like, I refuse to impact that

tree with the plan or like anything.

450

:

Yeah.

451

:

These days, the tree stays.

452

:

I mean, it appears that there

probably was a place of like

453

:

native American significance.

454

:

And I don't know the full history of it,

but like we're not messing with that tree.

455

:

Wow.

456

:

That's.

457

:

My I don't that's that's the

experience that I've had at work.

458

:

Wow.

459

:

Have you ever had a ghost experience?

460

:

Erika?

461

:

Um, uh, I don't know if I would

say a ghost experience, but I

462

:

would consider myself like a highly

sensitive person just to energy.

463

:

, and I've absolutely had very sensitive

moments, but I've never seen a ghost.

464

:

I don't know that I believe in

ghosts in the way that a movie would

465

:

portray it, but I think that energy

is neither created nor destroyed.

466

:

And some people are more sensitive

to picking up on it than others.

467

:

So.

468

:

So I have.

469

:

Do you want to hear it?

470

:

Obviously, it's not, I never saw her.

471

:

Okay.

472

:

But I know, but also I made it clear

that I really did not want to see her.

473

:

Okay.

474

:

, so when I first met Spencer, I moved

in with him in Atlanta, in grant park.

475

:

, and we lived in this very old house.

476

:

, it's from the 1930s, and.

477

:

We lived in the basement of this house

and one of the first nights I was there.

478

:

We were hearing footsteps go

up and down the, oh my God.

479

:

I'm so sorry to interrupt you.

480

:

I do have a ghost story, but.

481

:

okay.

482

:

I'm sorry.

483

:

I'm sorry.

484

:

We'll circle back.

485

:

So.

486

:

One of the first nights I'm staying there.

487

:

We hear footsteps going up and

down the stairs and I immediately

488

:

hear it and I'm like, uh, hello.

489

:

Is that like, we had roommates, but

I thought they were gone at the time.

490

:

Okay.

491

:

, and they were gone at the

time and Spencer's like,

492

:

yeah, that's just our ghost.

493

:

And I was like, huh.

494

:

What are you talking about?

495

:

Like I, yeah, and I am very, , Like

I'm also very intuitive person.

496

:

Like I, or what did you sensitive person?

497

:

I can.

498

:

I'm always feeling energies.

499

:

I know if a person is like

a bad person immediately.

500

:

Yeah.

501

:

It's like that kind of vibe for me.

502

:

Yeah.

503

:

And then as soon as he said, there

was a ghost, I immediately was

504

:

like, oh my God, her name's Julia.

505

:

And I didn't know why I said that really,

except for like, I had this like, feeling

506

:

that her name was Julia and it pops

into my head and it felt so right.

507

:

And then Julia and I low key became buds.

508

:

She felt very nice.

509

:

It did not feel.

510

:

Any sort of bad energy.

511

:

And I looked it up too, because

I didn't want to fuck with her.

512

:

I was like, okay, how

do I like be a friend?

513

:

Yeah.

514

:

To a ghost that lives in my

house because that is terrifying.

515

:

And I don't want to be scared.

516

:

And basically the whole thing

is like setting up boundaries.

517

:

And one of my boundaries

was , look, we can be pals, but I

518

:

literally never want to see you.

519

:

That would freak me

out more than anything.

520

:

Please don't do that.

521

:

So a couple months later.

522

:

My roommate keeps falling down the stairs.

523

:

And I'm like, Julia, what the fuck girl?

524

:

Like, what are you doing?

525

:

And he felt someone pushed him.

526

:

But yeah.

527

:

Turns out.

528

:

He's a terrible person.

529

:

Oh, I won't go into what he did because

it's just too much to talk about.

530

:

But, , we found out like six

months later, he literally got

531

:

like, we kicked him out of.

532

:

The house.

533

:

It was that bad of a person.

534

:

And I was like, holy shit, Julia, my

girl, like this whole time, I thought you

535

:

were really fucked up for doing that.

536

:

Yeah.

537

:

And we had ghost hunters come one time.

538

:

And they made us turn out all the

lights in the house they made

539

:

us unplug every electrical thing.

540

:

And then they did , their

little ghost hunt thing.

541

:

I put out snacks for them.

542

:

It was very weird.

543

:

, and wait for the ghosts or

the ghost hunters, hunters.

544

:

I didn't think Julia could eat anything.

545

:

But they like told us so much

about NGOs and they had this

546

:

little, , led light thing.

547

:

And basically they sat it down

on a table and didn't touch it

548

:

and it would blink on and off.

549

:

And like it could have been.

550

:

Absolutely bullshit.

551

:

And it did low key feel like that.

552

:

A couple of times, but if it wasn't

bullshit, then that was really cool.

553

:

But if it was then like, whatever, but

we would ask her questions where like

554

:

blink twice if, oh, blah, blah, blah.

555

:

And I said blink twice.

556

:

If I'm your favorite in the house.

557

:

Just like

558

:

With a ghost and you're

like, do you like me?

559

:

Yeah.

560

:

And then another time a friend came

over and tried to Sage her out.

561

:

Oh.

562

:

And because he was like,

he's a very spiritual guy.

563

:

And he was under the belief

that a ghost wants to be.

564

:

Yeah.

565

:

And so I was like, you know, if

that's what she wants, like I'm down.

566

:

He asked our permission,

whatever I'm like, yeah.

567

:

I don't want her to be

like, I care about Julia.

568

:

And literally this bitch, so we closed.

569

:

The door to our room because

I didn't want to participate.

570

:

So I go to my room, close the door,

Spencer and I are laying in bed while

571

:

they're like saging the entire house.

572

:

All of a sudden his computer screen.

573

:

Lights up and starts blinking.

574

:

Oh my gosh.

575

:

And I was like, oh my God,

she's not being saved.

576

:

She's in here.

577

:

here.

578

:

And so then we, then we moved and I

was really sad to say bye to Julia.

579

:

And I hope she's doing well.

580

:

I hope they treat her well at that house.

581

:

I think that's a really interesting.

582

:

Yeah.

583

:

, do you have a go story?

584

:

Genuine?

585

:

Can I share several, but I've also largely

had positive experiences with C yeah.

586

:

Ghosts.

587

:

Yeah, it's really cool.

588

:

The tree one that you said is that was

not a, that was not a positive experience.

589

:

Yeah, definitely going to fuck with the.

590

:

You know, No, I understand it.

591

:

I know.

592

:

How about you, Erica?

593

:

I actually do have a goose story.

594

:

Oh my God.

595

:

How I forgot this.

596

:

Not really.

597

:

Okay.

598

:

So the space that we're recording

in right now that is the

599

:

space for Hawkins and Clover.

600

:

Um, oh my God.

601

:

Is it going to be about a ghost here?

602

:

Yes.

603

:

Have I not told you this?

604

:

No.

605

:

Are they nice.

606

:

You'll have to see.

607

:

Oh my God.

608

:

Okay.

609

:

So this building used to

be, , some sort of, , industrial

610

:

manufacturing site that has been,

, parceled out into, workspaces.

611

:

And I'm in one of them.

612

:

And, , this was years ago.

613

:

, When we were just a salon, it was me.

614

:

And, , may vary from episode one.

615

:

, we would regularly.

616

:

Feel something.

617

:

It wasn't intimidating.

618

:

It wasn't scary.

619

:

But it was, there was always just

kind of this energy in this space.

620

:

, very frequently when we were

mixing hair color, we would have

621

:

our back turned towards the stairs.

622

:

And if you, if you haven't been in

here, the space is broken up into like,

623

:

there's a front area and a back area.

624

:

And it looks like a loft,

like very high ceilings.

625

:

And then we also have an upstairs

and there's this landing in the

626

:

stairs that kind of sits right in

between the front and the back.

627

:

And, , When we were mixing hair

color, it felt like somebody was

628

:

standing on the landing watching us.

629

:

And it was very matter of fact, again,

it wasn't scary, but it was very,

630

:

like, we turn around , So many times.

631

:

Mayberry and I.

632

:

You know, we would think that the other

of us had walked into the room and

633

:

turn around to say something, but then

like they're not there type of thing.

634

:

And so again, it was never scary.

635

:

It was sort of just like,

huh, that's kind of weird.

636

:

But again, we're right across from

a very old, very large cemetery

637

:

in a very historic neighborhood.

638

:

In Atlanta.

639

:

So.

640

:

You know, there's that.

641

:

So , I was doing my

first client of the day.

642

:

It was just me, her and my

assistant in the building.

643

:

And we heard a door close upstairs and.

644

:

I was like, Hmm.

645

:

I think at this time of morning,

we should be the only ones here.

646

:

And I said, Hey, will you run

upstairs and just check and make

647

:

sure , nobody has come into work yet.

648

:

And she's like, well,

what do I have to do it?

649

:

And I was like, cause I'm your boss

when I asked you to, oh my God.

650

:

If you asked me to do

that, I'd be like, no.

651

:

I'd be like sounds.

652

:

Literally now.

653

:

She was like, ah, and

so she goes upstairs.

654

:

And not.

655

:

Yes.

656

:

Literally never.

657

:

I mean, if this was like 10 in

the morning on like a Wednesday.

658

:

That's like pretty like nine.

659

:

That time of day, right?

660

:

So she looks around upstairs, comes back

down and she says, , I don't see anything.

661

:

And my client, and this is worth noting.

662

:

I had been doing this

clients here for years.

663

:

So I've known, I know this woman, I

would say pretty darn well, , I'm kind

664

:

of just calmly and matter of faculty,

the client was like, oh, that's, you

665

:

know, it isn't anything to worry about.

666

:

And I was like, Hmm.

667

:

And then my assistant was like,

why do you say it like that?

668

:

Are you a second or something?

669

:

And I looked at her and I

was like, God, calm down.

670

:

, but my client was like,

well, actually, yes.

671

:

And I was like, whoa, like, wait a minute.

672

:

I didn't know that about you.

673

:

And she was like, yeah, I don't

advertise it, but , yeah, . Since I

674

:

was young, I just, um, can communicate

with things and I was like, Ooh.

675

:

And I was like, well, okay.

676

:

But then we, what are you saying?

677

:

, are you saying what I think you're saying?

678

:

And she's like, Yep.

679

:

And I was like, there's a ghost in here.

680

:

And she was like, yeah.

681

:

And we were like, oh, oh my

God, , we've jokingly are

682

:

like, oh, it's just the ghost.

683

:

You know, kind of like what you

were saying with your story, Kelly.

684

:

, but I was like, wait a minute.

685

:

And, and so my assistant was

like, Ooh, what type of ghost?

686

:

She was just like, oh,

687

:

Um, but she was like, tell us more.

688

:

, and so my client closed her eyes

and she was like, let me ask.

689

:

And she just closed her

eyes and took a second.

690

:

And she said, Okay.

691

:

She was like, I'm feeling the energy

of a young girl and she enjoys kind

692

:

of the like beauty and the space and

like the creativity that happens here.

693

:

And she just really enjoys, just

kind of like observing everything

694

:

that you're creating here.

695

:

And I was like, oh my

God, that's fucking nuts.

696

:

But I still was like,

man, I'm not buying it.

697

:

, so I was like, I'm going to trigger.

698

:

And so I said, can you ask her

where she likes to hang out?

699

:

And she's like, yeah, let me ask.

700

:

So she closes her eyes again.

701

:

She opens her eyes back up and she says

she loves the landing of the stairs.

702

:

It, because she can look into the

front room and the back room and just

703

:

observe everything that's happening.

704

:

And I was like, Ooh, of all

the places for her to suggest,

705

:

I can't believe it was that one.

706

:

,

so she says that there's a lot of children who died.

707

:

At a young age in this neighborhood

and they kind of pop in and out

708

:

of these spaces through here, but

I'm getting the impression that

709

:

she's the one that's in your space.

710

:

The most.

711

:

And she, again, like, they just really

enjoy the fun and the energy of it.

712

:

, and I was like, wow, that's crazy.

713

:

And she said she has curly red hair.

714

:

And her favorite color is

green and she loves chocolate.

715

:

And she said, if you want to

talk to her, you can whoa.

716

:

And you can leave her an offering.

717

:

And she's like, I wouldn't

worry about anything.

718

:

But, you know, there are things you

can do if things get uncomfortable,

719

:

but just, just talk to her.

720

:

And I was like, okay, the day before

I had had lunch with my parents

721

:

at, , a restaurant that has a

giant bowl of Andy's myths by the

722

:

door, and I always take a handful.

723

:

I had a bunch of Andes mints,

which are chocolate and green.

724

:

And so I took one and

I set it on the stairs.

725

:

And I said, Hey, nice to meet ya.

726

:

, here you go.

727

:

, please keep it polite.

728

:

And, uh, you may stay and , sorry.

729

:

You're dead.

730

:

And, , Maybe a week or two later

I had a client come in and she

731

:

was like, did you get a new dog?

732

:

And I was like, what?

733

:

And she was like, well,

I walked by on Sunday.

734

:

We were closed on Sundays.

735

:

I walked by on Sunday and I saw what I

assumed was like, uh, uh, some sort of

736

:

doodle with curly red hair in the window.

737

:

And I was like,

738

:

That was a ghost.

739

:

And she's like, what?

740

:

Oh, my God.

741

:

I know this sounds crazy.

742

:

Chill.

743

:

For sure was not a doodle in here.

744

:

Um, and there's just the fact

that she just casually, she

745

:

walked by our window and just saw.

746

:

This curly red hair and

the window and just.

747

:

Oh, my God.

748

:

Um, so it's freaking me out.

749

:

With our shampoos, we

did hand massages, pre.

750

:

Pre COVID and one day Mayberry

had a client and she, the

751

:

client felt may re tap her arms.

752

:

And so she put out her hand

for the hand massage, but then

753

:

nobody grabbed it to massage.

754

:

And so the client had like

an eye pillow over her eyes.

755

:

So she lifts the corner of her eyes.

756

:

Now.

757

:

Look over now.

758

:

May freeze across the room.

759

:

Mixing the client's gloss.

760

:

Absolutely could not have touched her.

761

:

It was like what the F.

762

:

I can't handle that.

763

:

Yeah.

764

:

Uh, this happened in the

building we're in right now.

765

:

Yeah.

766

:

That's why it's freaking me out.

767

:

I know.

768

:

And it's getting dark and.

769

:

We know.

770

:

So I haven't told me, like, I've never.

771

:

Let me finish the story.

772

:

Why.

773

:

Um, So.

774

:

Oh, lots of little things, but then

one day Mayberry was the last one

775

:

here and she was in the bathroom

putting away towels or something.

776

:

And she heard a man's voice.

777

:

No deep.

778

:

, and kind of aggressive

and scary in her ear.

779

:

And she got terrified

and she was like, okay.

780

:

Nope.

781

:

, and there were other little things

like we'd feel gusts of cold air.

782

:

, where there's no vent and just like all of

these little things that like individually

783

:

you're like this isn't a big deal, but

like, it there's something happening.

784

:

So mayfly was like, can

I smudge this place?

785

:

Can I do a little expelling

ceremony and I was like, yeah, but

786

:

I don't want to be here for it.

787

:

Yeah.

788

:

So she did this whole little ritual thing

and we haven't had a single issue since.

789

:

That legit freaked me out.

790

:

I wasn't, I wasn't prepared

to tell that story.

791

:

, but this is the perfect time to do it.

792

:

Oh, I feel like I just went through

a haunted house or something.

793

:

Yeah.

794

:

It's the same.

795

:

I love them when it was like,

Erica, do you have a ghost story?

796

:

You're like, nah.

797

:

I know, are you kidding me?

798

:

I think I was looking at work.

799

:

My hands are like sweating.

800

:

Oh, my God.

801

:

I mean the one right here.

802

:

Yeah.

803

:

It sounds like it was a bad

ghost though, except that yeah.

804

:

Well maybe, maybe the last one, the man.

805

:

It's not welcome here.

806

:

Yeah, fuck that.

807

:

Yeah.

808

:

Fuck that.

809

:

I'm glad that happened to her and not me.

810

:

Oh my gosh.

811

:

She's extremely sensitive to that stuff.

812

:

So growing up, I wouldn't be here now.

813

:

She has a crazy story of like a.

814

:

Home.

815

:

She lived in, uh, when she, you

don't have to tell me I'm good.

816

:

I don't remember enough details

to repeat it, but like, She's very

817

:

sensitive to that type of stuff.

818

:

So like when she, her.

819

:

I believe her because it's just something

that she's experienced her whole life.

820

:

Yeah, it's so interesting.

821

:

So, okay.

822

:

You had the crazy storm and

the tree you have had, that's

823

:

the only, work-related kind of.

824

:

Situation.

825

:

That's the only one I can think of.

826

:

That was work-related.

827

:

Okay.

828

:

Is there a non-work-related

one that you'd like to share?

829

:

There are a bunch of network-related ones.

830

:

And the one that I could pick a nice one.

831

:

Too scared.

832

:

No.

833

:

Everyone your heart.

834

:

So I went to college at university

of Georgia and I lived in

835

:

Athens and I was in a sorority.

836

:

I know.

837

:

Wow.

838

:

When I tell people I was a cheerleader,

it's like, well, that does not.

839

:

Oh, my God.

840

:

I was a cheerleader.

841

:

Really?

842

:

Yeah.

843

:

No, it does not.

844

:

No, it does not track all my back.

845

:

It was one year.

846

:

So all of us are a little basic.

847

:

I think a little.

848

:

I think everyone knew that already.

849

:

So I lived in the sorority house for.

850

:

Kind of two years.

851

:

And kind of.

852

:

Two-ish I stayed at various

places and there is a ghost.

853

:

At the sorority house and she's

well-known her name is Suzy.

854

:

Um, And.

855

:

There's a story that there was,

uh, the house was built as a

856

:

wedding gift for a young couple.

857

:

And then track.

858

:

Yeah.

859

:

Gorgeous house to.

860

:

Wow.

861

:

Um, and like, allegedly,

like she died in the house.

862

:

Heartbroken.

863

:

Oh, I don't know.

864

:

Her heart was broken.

865

:

It was broken.

866

:

Okay.

867

:

Well you said tragedies.

868

:

I wasn't sure if it was like, there

were details on the tragedy or.

869

:

There's actually like a

Facebook post about this today,

870

:

so I can share that there's.

871

:

What are the odds?

872

:

I know.

873

:

I know top of mind.

874

:

Yeah.

875

:

So, and it's known as

the wedding cake house.

876

:

Cause it sort of looks like a

wedding cake, but also there's.

877

:

Like sad ghost backstory.

878

:

But the experiences that I had

with her were all positive.

879

:

So I don't even know if it was the

same ghost because it was not scary.

880

:

But there's definitely a presence there.

881

:

Wow.

882

:

And you can feel her in different rooms.

883

:

There's like the old part of the

house and the new part of the house.

884

:

And there was an attic and you

could very much feel her there.

885

:

So always in.

886

:

I heard her play the piano in time.

887

:

A little piano and the, but

it was, I mean like, like your

888

:

experiences, not a scary thing.

889

:

Very clearly.

890

:

Presence.

891

:

Yeah.

892

:

Person.

893

:

Yeah.

894

:

Wow.

895

:

That's so cool.

896

:

So never anything scary.

897

:

Uh, some scary.

898

:

Oh, my God come.

899

:

So I have some relatives who live

in this very old house in Atlanta.

900

:

It was one boy.

901

:

He oldest houses in Atlanta.

902

:

It's still, still is.

903

:

, And it's this beautiful house.

904

:

And it has seen a lot over the

years, , during the civil war,

905

:

it was occupied by union troops.

906

:

And they're like the banister up the

stairs has all of these marks where

907

:

they used to drop the rifle and the

banister in the morning to wake people up.

908

:

Oh, This house has seen things.

909

:

Wow.

910

:

I don't know how much I can

say about it, because it is

911

:

my relatives who lived there.

912

:

Whatever you feel comfortable sharing.

913

:

So, but there, there were likely people.

914

:

Who died there and there

are likely bodies there.

915

:

That I don't have specifics on,

but when I was in the house one

916

:

time, there was this one room that

like, We're looking around is.

917

:

Like beautifully appointed

the houses insanely amazing.

918

:

. And.

919

:

This one room just felt like terrible.

920

:

It's terrible to me.

921

:

Very pretty room.

922

:

Strong, no on that room for me.

923

:

And so I like got out as fast as I could.

924

:

And my brother who is also kind

of sensitive to this stuff was

925

:

also like touring the house.

926

:

With me.

927

:

And he, I saw him also

like bolt out of the room.

928

:

And I was like ghost.

929

:

He was like ghost.

930

:

I was like, Ooh.

931

:

Civil war goes.

932

:

He was like, I don't know.

933

:

It's bad.

934

:

I was like, I know.

935

:

Wow.

936

:

So you just felt an overwhelming,

like there was not a good ghost.

937

:

Yeah.

938

:

I don't know if that's a usual ghost

there, but that was not a good I

939

:

was going to say to your relatives,

, have they ever been like, yeah,

940

:

we just don't go in that room or.

941

:

I don't know if I should ask.

942

:

Yeah, I was, I'm curious about that.

943

:

Yeah.

944

:

Cause they gotta know, they gotta be

like, like, is it just in that one room?

945

:

Hopefully, oh, that's just Martha.

946

:

No, this was a very male energy.

947

:

Oh, okay.

948

:

Damn, ah, Was not good.

949

:

Oh, that's so interesting.

950

:

Anyway, I really love spring time.

951

:

I love flowers.

952

:

I allow farmers I'm happy and content.

953

:

Boring.

954

:

And I had a friend who lived in a house.

955

:

You had a similar situation to

yours, where she was living in

956

:

the basement of an older house.

957

:

And it was, uh, turned out there

was like a speakeasy there.

958

:

Cool.

959

:

Found out because at night you could hear

a party going on through the basement

960

:

wall, but there was nothing on the

other side of the unfinished basement.

961

:

Wow.

962

:

But it was like very , you know, holding

her into the next room at a party

963

:

and it feels kind of like goodbye.

964

:

Yeah.

965

:

Oh, wow.

966

:

They're just like endlessly partying.

967

:

That's actually so crazy.

968

:

I think that it's, you know, I'm not a.

969

:

Physicist, but.

970

:

This Justin, , There's like this

energy imprint that just sometimes.

971

:

Doesn't go away.

972

:

When the physical matter

that created that energy.

973

:

Leaves.

974

:

And I think that's like

what these experiences are.

975

:

That's how I interpret it.

976

:

Yeah, I mean, energy cannot

be created or destroyed.

977

:

And I do think that's.

978

:

Uh, reason for something, any

sort of spiritual, anything

979

:

at li like it might exist.

980

:

Because of that.

981

:

Only because of that.

982

:

That's like a crazy truth.

983

:

Yeah.

984

:

That one freaks me out too.

985

:

Oh, my God.

986

:

I feel like I just like

went through something.

987

:

I love, I didn't know.

988

:

You were such a puss.

989

:

I.

990

:

, you know, there's a ghost

at the Plaza theater.

991

:

Is there.

992

:

Oh, I have a lot, since that I

have a friend who works there.

993

:

Um, and.

994

:

Most of the time, it's like a good ghost.

995

:

But there is one scary story.

996

:

, and it's not.

997

:

I feel comfortable talking

about it because it's like,

998

:

it's not that scary of a ghost.

999

:

, it's a ghost that basically just

doesn't want to be fucked with.

:

00:38:29,871 --> 00:38:31,581

Okay, because the Plaza theater.

:

00:38:31,881 --> 00:38:33,441

Around fair.

:

00:38:33,861 --> 00:38:35,751

The Plaza theater has been

around for like, so, so, so,

:

00:38:35,751 --> 00:38:38,051

so, so, so long and, basically.

:

00:38:38,531 --> 00:38:39,401

There was this one.

:

00:38:39,851 --> 00:38:42,131

Guy who works there, who

stayed there overnight.

:

00:38:42,531 --> 00:38:44,601

, one time and he tried

to stay there overnight.

:

00:38:45,231 --> 00:38:48,801

Yeah, this is like, Um, like

last year, maybe, probably, or.

:

00:38:49,461 --> 00:38:50,331

Or like six months ago?

:

00:38:50,361 --> 00:38:50,601

I don't know.

:

00:38:50,601 --> 00:38:50,931

I don't know.

:

00:38:51,111 --> 00:38:52,671

Okay, but he still works there now.

:

00:38:53,121 --> 00:38:53,331

Okay.

:

00:38:53,841 --> 00:38:54,501

But.

:

00:38:54,501 --> 00:38:58,071

He was staying there overnight

and he slept in the office and he

:

00:38:58,071 --> 00:39:01,431

woke up to someone banging on the

door, saying, get the fuck out,

:

00:39:01,461 --> 00:39:02,961

get the fuck out, get the fuck out.

:

00:39:03,051 --> 00:39:03,471

Oh my God.

:

00:39:03,561 --> 00:39:06,411

And so he left immediately, which

like, But so we opened the door.

:

00:39:06,441 --> 00:39:07,071

Nobody was there.

:

00:39:07,101 --> 00:39:07,431

Yeah.

:

00:39:07,551 --> 00:39:08,751

It was like also plausible.

:

00:39:08,751 --> 00:39:09,471

That was a person.

:

00:39:09,591 --> 00:39:09,861

Right.

:

00:39:10,161 --> 00:39:10,551

No, no, no.

:

00:39:10,641 --> 00:39:11,661

He left immediately.

:

00:39:11,691 --> 00:39:13,101

He knew exactly what it was.

:

00:39:14,181 --> 00:39:15,321

I know it's really scary.

:

00:39:15,381 --> 00:39:18,021

I I've heard this story like a couple

of times, so I feel a little more

:

00:39:18,021 --> 00:39:20,581

like adjusted to it, but, , oh my God.

:

00:39:20,611 --> 00:39:22,681

They're like they feel chills and stuff.

:

00:39:22,681 --> 00:39:25,261

And like, sometimes they hear like

scratching on the back of seats.

:

00:39:25,831 --> 00:39:29,221

But for the most part, he

doesn't like mess with customers.

:

00:39:29,221 --> 00:39:30,751

It's like not that kind of thing.

:

00:39:31,291 --> 00:39:33,901

Because mostly he just wants

to be left alone at night.

:

00:39:34,081 --> 00:39:36,451

It's like, I don't want people

here, like leave me alone.

:

00:39:36,551 --> 00:39:38,591

, do they have any idea who the ghost is?

:

00:39:38,621 --> 00:39:39,131

Like somebody.

:

00:39:39,191 --> 00:39:40,451

Has now died there.

:

00:39:41,081 --> 00:39:43,501

They think it might be someone who

like worked there or there's like a

:

00:39:43,501 --> 00:39:45,541

big homeless population around there.

:

00:39:45,941 --> 00:39:48,971

, I, they used to like, let

people sleep there sometimes.

:

00:39:48,971 --> 00:39:50,411

So like something could have happened.

:

00:39:50,771 --> 00:39:53,471

There's like something that

people have theorized about.

:

00:39:53,561 --> 00:39:54,341

Oh, I don't know.

:

00:39:54,341 --> 00:39:57,661

It could, it could be really anything,

but, I don't think he's a mean ghost.

:

00:39:57,731 --> 00:40:00,761

I've been in there and I've been

like, okay, the presences here.

:

00:40:01,181 --> 00:40:02,141

Are not negative.

:

00:40:02,221 --> 00:40:03,811

It's not good either.

:

00:40:03,811 --> 00:40:05,131

It's just like neutral.

:

00:40:05,161 --> 00:40:05,491

Yeah.

:

00:40:05,491 --> 00:40:07,771

It's like, basically, like, he just

doesn't want to be fucked with.

:

00:40:07,921 --> 00:40:08,191

Okay.

:

00:40:08,221 --> 00:40:10,201

Which is very hashtag relatable.

:

00:40:10,771 --> 00:40:13,171

That's all you can ask

for really like I get it.

:

00:40:13,231 --> 00:40:13,651

Yeah.

:

00:40:13,751 --> 00:40:14,981

, And like people know about him.

:

00:40:14,981 --> 00:40:17,951

So that might be another reason

why he's like, don't fuck with me.

:

00:40:17,951 --> 00:40:18,881

Like I live here.

:

00:40:19,991 --> 00:40:20,771

It's interesting.

:

00:40:20,801 --> 00:40:22,451

Interesting in an old.

:

00:40:23,111 --> 00:40:24,611

Establishment like that.

:

00:40:24,641 --> 00:40:28,781

You're like, am I feeling things

or is this place just old?

:

00:40:29,051 --> 00:40:31,121

And it's just like the energy of.

:

00:40:32,051 --> 00:40:33,761

History and not new construction.

:

00:40:33,821 --> 00:40:34,571

You know, right.

:

00:40:34,571 --> 00:40:35,411

But I go to the Plaza.

:

00:40:35,441 --> 00:40:37,541

I mean, gentlemen, I know you and

your husband do too a lot, like

:

00:40:37,541 --> 00:40:40,301

weaker, regular Plaza, attendees.

:

00:40:41,351 --> 00:40:41,921

I am too.

:

00:40:42,791 --> 00:40:43,871

I've never seen anything.

:

00:40:44,051 --> 00:40:44,231

Yeah.

:

00:40:44,531 --> 00:40:45,011

That's the thing.

:

00:40:45,041 --> 00:40:46,811

He doesn't like mess with customers.

:

00:40:46,871 --> 00:40:47,141

Yeah.

:

00:40:47,171 --> 00:40:47,741

He knows.

:

00:40:47,951 --> 00:40:48,281

Yeah.

:

00:40:48,311 --> 00:40:49,121

Who butters his bread.

:

00:40:49,181 --> 00:40:49,691

And so.

:

00:40:50,381 --> 00:40:53,501

And so, I didn't know, my friend was

working there and I found out like

:

00:40:53,531 --> 00:40:55,721

literally the other day and I was

like, oh my God, it's the ghost real.

:

00:40:55,781 --> 00:40:57,941

And he was like, oh yeah, Wow.

:

00:40:57,941 --> 00:40:58,391

I was like, whoa.

:

00:40:58,901 --> 00:41:00,821

Because I've heard about

it for so long now.

:

00:41:00,941 --> 00:41:01,301

Oh my God.

:

00:41:01,301 --> 00:41:02,411

Your friend should come on this podcast.

:

00:41:03,371 --> 00:41:05,171

Next week, next week.

:

00:41:05,651 --> 00:41:05,921

Yeah.

:

00:41:06,461 --> 00:41:07,001

Episode.

:

00:41:07,541 --> 00:41:08,201

Halloween.

:

00:41:08,321 --> 00:41:09,011

I mean wine.

:

00:41:09,071 --> 00:41:09,581

Yeah.

:

00:41:09,581 --> 00:41:09,791

Yeah.

:

00:41:09,871 --> 00:41:12,001

. I had no idea that the conversation

was going to pivot to this direction.

:

00:41:12,241 --> 00:41:13,471

I've had to, I had to.

:

00:41:15,171 --> 00:41:18,111

, I have a question for you

regarding landscape architecture.

:

00:41:18,531 --> 00:41:19,071

Um, okay.

:

00:41:19,071 --> 00:41:21,411

So I met this landscape architecture.

:

00:41:21,801 --> 00:41:22,371

Architect.

:

00:41:22,941 --> 00:41:23,451

Was it me?

:

00:41:23,661 --> 00:41:23,901

No.

:

00:41:24,351 --> 00:41:26,631

You're my second, who I've

met, which is very fun.

:

00:41:26,791 --> 00:41:28,411

, he works at a private first.

:

00:41:29,971 --> 00:41:31,351

He works at a private firm.

:

00:41:31,351 --> 00:41:35,881

And I produced a commercial that

like he was helping with for an art

:

00:41:35,881 --> 00:41:40,841

piece in Atlanta and they were like

designing the park where this art piece.

:

00:41:41,051 --> 00:41:41,591

We'll be.

:

00:41:41,961 --> 00:41:45,891

So that's his whole job designing

this thing in the middle of the city.

:

00:41:46,191 --> 00:41:47,631

Um, it's where those waterfalls are.

:

00:41:47,931 --> 00:41:48,711

I don't know if you know.

:

00:41:49,191 --> 00:41:50,481

Yeah, Woodriff park.

:

00:41:50,511 --> 00:41:51,141

Yes.

:

00:41:51,711 --> 00:41:52,191

We were like,

:

00:41:53,931 --> 00:41:56,721

I'm going to say fresh vendors

up on that design competition.

:

00:41:57,741 --> 00:41:59,541

I have a lot of thoughts about

that, but I'm excited that

:

00:41:59,541 --> 00:42:00,201

they're actually building it.

:

00:42:00,201 --> 00:42:02,601

It was, it was a design competition.

:

00:42:02,661 --> 00:42:04,281

That's the exact thing I'm talking about.

:

00:42:04,491 --> 00:42:05,601

No, no.

:

00:42:05,721 --> 00:42:06,771

That's so crazy.

:

00:42:06,801 --> 00:42:08,091

Atlanta legacy makers.

:

00:42:08,121 --> 00:42:08,601

Yes.

:

00:42:08,691 --> 00:42:09,981

And I did the video for them.

:

00:42:10,011 --> 00:42:10,731

That's amazing.

:

00:42:10,881 --> 00:42:11,631

That was great.

:

00:42:11,661 --> 00:42:12,141

Thank you.

:

00:42:13,101 --> 00:42:14,181

It actually, no, it turned out.

:

00:42:14,361 --> 00:42:15,021

Beautiful.

:

00:42:15,051 --> 00:42:16,521

I was so proud of that video.

:

00:42:16,521 --> 00:42:17,061

That's the video.

:

00:42:17,061 --> 00:42:17,571

I show people.

:

00:42:17,571 --> 00:42:20,031

It's like here I produce, look

at it like the one when they

:

00:42:20,061 --> 00:42:21,261

announced the competition.

:

00:42:21,561 --> 00:42:22,821

Um, I I'll show you it.

:

00:42:25,131 --> 00:42:27,021

Um, but anyways, small world.

:

00:42:27,741 --> 00:42:28,341

Yeah, it is.

:

00:42:28,341 --> 00:42:32,271

But I was working with this guy because

he was part of the video, obviously.

:

00:42:32,651 --> 00:42:33,371

, and.

:

00:42:33,408 --> 00:42:36,988

We were just walking down the street

in Atlanta and he's picking weeds.

:

00:42:37,378 --> 00:42:40,998

Out of these random grass area.

:

00:42:41,028 --> 00:42:43,278

And it like in the middle

of downtown Atlanta.

:

00:42:43,308 --> 00:42:44,838

And I was like, what are you doing?

:

00:42:45,168 --> 00:42:47,808

And he's like, oh, I'm just,

you know, I'm just weeding.

:

00:42:48,168 --> 00:42:52,338

He's like in full business

attire, , it was just so funny to me.

:

00:42:52,338 --> 00:42:56,928

And I was like, wow, you are so

genuinely passionate about this.

:

00:42:56,958 --> 00:43:01,418

That , if you're going around town

on your lunchtime walk, weeding.

:

00:43:01,868 --> 00:43:05,798

I'm wondering if you feel similarly,

do you ever do stuff like that?

:

00:43:05,848 --> 00:43:07,588

. I pick up a lot of random trash.

:

00:43:08,248 --> 00:43:08,938

Yeah.

:

00:43:08,938 --> 00:43:09,568

Yeah.

:

00:43:10,768 --> 00:43:13,048

That's the same thing I do think it is.

:

00:43:13,078 --> 00:43:14,728

I think, I think it falls into it.

:

00:43:14,758 --> 00:43:14,878

It's.

:

00:43:15,118 --> 00:43:16,258

Caring about your city.

:

00:43:16,378 --> 00:43:17,038

Environment.

:

00:43:17,098 --> 00:43:17,248

Yeah.

:

00:43:17,428 --> 00:43:21,358

Like you care about the literal look

of these places, which literal litter.

:

00:43:21,628 --> 00:43:21,838

Yeah.

:

00:43:22,738 --> 00:43:23,128

Yeah.

:

00:43:23,278 --> 00:43:24,568

The literal liver.

:

00:43:25,378 --> 00:43:31,678

Yeah, no, I find that so amazing because

I truthfully I'm not, I don't do that.

:

00:43:32,428 --> 00:43:35,248

I don't look at Josh and I'm not,

I'm like, oh, I need to pick it up.

:

00:43:35,308 --> 00:43:35,878

I mean, I wish.

:

00:43:36,358 --> 00:43:37,408

I wish I did things that.

:

00:43:37,678 --> 00:43:39,088

Back rapper, throw it out the window.

:

00:43:39,298 --> 00:43:40,438

No, I don't do that.

:

00:43:40,438 --> 00:43:43,678

I don't litter personally,

but if I see litter, I'm like,

:

00:43:43,738 --> 00:43:44,368

Ooh, I don't want to touch.

:

00:43:44,638 --> 00:43:45,958

Like, somebody should pick that up.

:

00:43:47,338 --> 00:43:49,018

I, yeah, I don't know.

:

00:43:49,228 --> 00:43:51,748

I'm worried about, I'm kind of a

germaphobe, so like I'm a little worried

:

00:43:51,748 --> 00:43:53,248

about that kind of stuff sometimes.

:

00:43:53,398 --> 00:43:56,858

So I regularly there's, , unhoused

people that will kind of camp out in

:

00:43:56,858 --> 00:44:00,968

the little stoops in front of these

businesses and they'll leave trash and

:

00:44:00,968 --> 00:44:03,248

sometimes it's food, sometimes it's waste.

:

00:44:03,248 --> 00:44:03,698

Growth.

:

00:44:03,758 --> 00:44:04,208

Yeah.

:

00:44:04,448 --> 00:44:08,198

There's a spectrum of things, but

I will regularly put on gloves,

:

00:44:08,228 --> 00:44:11,678

grab my, like a trash bag and my

broom and like clean the steps and

:

00:44:11,678 --> 00:44:13,088

like up and down the streets and.

:

00:44:13,148 --> 00:44:13,658

I got.

:

00:44:13,838 --> 00:44:16,478

Yeah, because I'm like,

who's no one else is doing.

:

00:44:17,108 --> 00:44:18,518

My customer's about to walk by this.

:

00:44:18,568 --> 00:44:20,728

I have a quick and crazy littering story.

:

00:44:20,978 --> 00:44:27,038

, I was driving down the street and I

was behind a car and I saw them litter.

:

00:44:27,098 --> 00:44:30,028

I'm like, like a like solid

amount of like, , maybe not

:

00:44:30,028 --> 00:44:31,288

like a full McDonald's bag.

:

00:44:31,558 --> 00:44:32,458

That happened before.

:

00:44:32,518 --> 00:44:32,638

Yeah.

:

00:44:32,848 --> 00:44:33,778

And I, I was shocked.

:

00:44:33,808 --> 00:44:34,948

I was like, what the fuck?

:

00:44:35,188 --> 00:44:37,918

And I got to the point where

they were going straight and

:

00:44:37,918 --> 00:44:38,818

I was going to take a left.

:

00:44:38,848 --> 00:44:40,048

So I, it was a two lane road.

:

00:44:40,048 --> 00:44:42,538

So I was up at a stop

sign right next to them.

:

00:44:42,898 --> 00:44:45,548

And I was like, I'm going to fucking

say something , this is insane.

:

00:44:45,788 --> 00:44:47,558

So like her window was down.

:

00:44:47,888 --> 00:44:50,578

So . I think it was two women in

the car and there's a baby in the

:

00:44:50,578 --> 00:44:52,498

backseat and their window was down.

:

00:44:52,498 --> 00:44:54,028

I want to say she was smoking.

:

00:44:54,058 --> 00:44:54,988

Don't quote me on that.

:

00:44:55,138 --> 00:44:58,348

But I rolled up my window and I said,

excuse me, you dropped something.

:

00:44:58,978 --> 00:45:01,768

And she looked me dead in the eyes

and she goes, we'll pick it up then.

:

00:45:03,028 --> 00:45:04,288

And I was like, oh my God.

:

00:45:05,818 --> 00:45:08,458

Oh, And I wouldn't do that now

because I'd be afraid of getting

:

00:45:08,458 --> 00:45:10,228

shot, but I know I was going to say.

:

00:45:10,678 --> 00:45:11,758

He would never do dialysis.

:

00:45:11,908 --> 00:45:12,508

I would not do that.

:

00:45:12,568 --> 00:45:14,128

Yeah, I will never do it again.

:

00:45:14,188 --> 00:45:16,318

I was stunned by the reaction that

was like, pick it up then I'm just

:

00:45:16,348 --> 00:45:19,048

like, you know, you're just littered

and you're getting called out on it.

:

00:45:19,048 --> 00:45:21,268

And that's the response

like, heck get up then.

:

00:45:21,688 --> 00:45:22,858

That's so bold.

:

00:45:22,888 --> 00:45:26,218

So bull, the whole process was bold

and I was just like, what the fuck?

:

00:45:26,248 --> 00:45:26,278

That.

:

00:45:26,308 --> 00:45:27,088

That is crazy.

:

00:45:27,118 --> 00:45:27,388

I know.

:

00:45:27,388 --> 00:45:29,458

So if you're listening,

don't fucking litter.

:

00:45:30,268 --> 00:45:30,868

Animals.

:

00:45:31,108 --> 00:45:33,088

I don't think anybody who listens

to this podcast would be illiterate.

:

00:45:33,298 --> 00:45:34,858

I mean, I feel like that our listeners.

:

00:45:35,338 --> 00:45:36,598

Very rare thing.

:

00:45:36,628 --> 00:45:38,158

Like most people.

:

00:45:38,448 --> 00:45:40,308

I would assume most people.

:

00:45:40,338 --> 00:45:42,138

No, not where about the planet?

:

00:45:42,248 --> 00:45:44,228

Can I take it back to

landscape architecture?

:

00:45:45,681 --> 00:45:47,931

So the cool thing about

landscape architecture.

:

00:45:48,321 --> 00:45:52,671

Is that in looking at the land

is like this larger thing.

:

00:45:52,731 --> 00:45:56,451

You can look at ways that it

benefits society on different levels.

:

00:45:56,451 --> 00:46:00,831

So like, yes, it might be beautiful, but

also maybe you can absorb stormwater,

:

00:46:00,831 --> 00:46:02,451

so it doesn't flood downstream.

:

00:46:02,451 --> 00:46:06,201

And then you don't have to build bigger

pipes and spend a lot of taxpayer money

:

00:46:06,201 --> 00:46:07,911

on that because the existing ones work.

:

00:46:08,661 --> 00:46:11,811

Or maybe you create pollinator

environments in which.

:

00:46:12,381 --> 00:46:13,191

We can, you know, help.

:

00:46:13,422 --> 00:46:16,632

Honeybees live or there is

just so many different ways

:

00:46:16,632 --> 00:46:18,162

in which the land can do more.

:

00:46:18,192 --> 00:46:21,132

And I think that we should

demand, especially when

:

00:46:21,132 --> 00:46:22,602

there's public money involved.

:

00:46:22,902 --> 00:46:24,852

We should demand that the land do more.

:

00:46:24,852 --> 00:46:25,752

If we should not have.

:

00:46:26,532 --> 00:46:28,182

Just a single use park.

:

00:46:28,302 --> 00:46:28,782

Yeah.

:

00:46:29,022 --> 00:46:29,622

I love that.

:

00:46:29,652 --> 00:46:29,892

That's.

:

00:46:30,912 --> 00:46:32,052

I don't think that's even hot.

:

00:46:32,052 --> 00:46:34,722

I think that makes so much sense and a.

:

00:46:35,862 --> 00:46:38,472

I think everything public money

is used for should be done

:

00:46:38,472 --> 00:46:39,642

efficiently and mindfully.

:

00:46:40,002 --> 00:46:40,332

Yeah.

:

00:46:40,362 --> 00:46:43,722

Also I feel like people don't

think about those things.

:

00:46:43,722 --> 00:46:46,272

Like I sure as hell, I've

never thought about that.

:

00:46:46,422 --> 00:46:47,172

Absolutely.

:

00:46:47,322 --> 00:46:49,332

And like, I think that's why.

:

00:46:49,932 --> 00:46:53,232

People like you are needed, you

know, like, especially on a podcast

:

00:46:53,232 --> 00:46:54,222

to be saying things like that.

:

00:46:54,222 --> 00:46:56,202

It's like, no, it's, these

things are important.

:

00:46:56,262 --> 00:46:59,952

And the only way that it would

change is if people demand it.

:

00:47:00,352 --> 00:47:01,612

, but no one knows about it.

:

00:47:01,642 --> 00:47:03,832

So how do we like demand it?

:

00:47:04,012 --> 00:47:04,942

We don't know about it.

:

00:47:05,312 --> 00:47:05,882

, a hundred percent.

:

00:47:05,882 --> 00:47:06,212

Yes.

:

00:47:06,782 --> 00:47:10,442

But I'm wondering, is there any,

community effort to like, get

:

00:47:10,442 --> 00:47:14,252

people to understand these types

of things, or like, is there any,

:

00:47:14,252 --> 00:47:17,072

or do you know of any organizations

that like, do something like that?

:

00:47:17,072 --> 00:47:17,972

Or maybe that's your.

:

00:47:18,212 --> 00:47:19,382

Your new business.

:

00:47:19,532 --> 00:47:22,802

I just thought, you know,

it's a great question.

:

00:47:22,802 --> 00:47:26,562

So in landscape architecture in

general, there's been a growing

:

00:47:26,592 --> 00:47:28,182

conversation over the past.

:

00:47:28,212 --> 00:47:32,802

I don't know, 10 or 15, probably longer

years about community engagement,

:

00:47:32,862 --> 00:47:37,002

because often there's an expectation

that if you're spending public money,

:

00:47:37,002 --> 00:47:40,362

the community should have some say and

the way that people have gotten around

:

00:47:40,362 --> 00:47:41,982

that is they have this very like.

:

00:47:42,462 --> 00:47:44,952

I'm going to decide what

this land should be.

:

00:47:45,012 --> 00:47:46,542

I think it should be a

park with a playground.

:

00:47:46,962 --> 00:47:47,202

Yeah.

:

00:47:47,202 --> 00:47:50,262

And then they bring it to the community

and they give them a little book of

:

00:47:50,262 --> 00:47:53,352

stickers and you can choose like which

swing set you want on the playground.

:

00:47:53,802 --> 00:47:56,652

And I believe this is not community input.

:

00:47:56,802 --> 00:47:58,662

This is something different.

:

00:47:59,232 --> 00:47:59,892

Hating us.

:

00:48:00,102 --> 00:48:00,432

Yeah.

:

00:48:02,232 --> 00:48:03,102

You've had your choice.

:

00:48:03,132 --> 00:48:03,882

Yeah.

:

00:48:03,972 --> 00:48:07,212

But like we really need community

to be able to be engaged at every

:

00:48:07,242 --> 00:48:10,602

step of the design process from like

envisioning what could happen in their

:

00:48:10,602 --> 00:48:14,232

neighborhoods to how it actually looks

and functions and who maintains it.

:

00:48:14,652 --> 00:48:17,592

But it's hard to do that

because that costs more money.

:

00:48:17,772 --> 00:48:18,102

Right.

:

00:48:18,672 --> 00:48:21,012

To have like an iterative design process.

:

00:48:21,072 --> 00:48:24,432

You have to have someone who's paying

for the iterative design process.

:

00:48:25,108 --> 00:48:27,838

And it's so valuable

when it happens though.

:

00:48:27,868 --> 00:48:29,158

Like it's, it's amazing.

:

00:48:29,158 --> 00:48:30,208

You can actually.

:

00:48:30,208 --> 00:48:34,438

Build a lot of consensus and community

with people who don't necessarily

:

00:48:34,438 --> 00:48:35,818

realize they have a lot in common.

:

00:48:35,818 --> 00:48:38,758

When you start having these

conversations about what land can be.

:

00:48:38,978 --> 00:48:43,208

Are there examples of other cities or

countries that do a good job of that?

:

00:48:43,245 --> 00:48:46,155

I am doing, , a lot of

work in New York right now.

:

00:48:46,245 --> 00:48:46,755

And.

:

00:48:46,755 --> 00:48:50,115

It is not to say that in New York, they

have this figured out, but there are.

:

00:48:50,115 --> 00:48:55,225

Some public park processes that

I've seen work really well so

:

00:48:55,225 --> 00:48:57,415

there's this park in Brooklyn.

:

00:48:57,415 --> 00:48:59,545

That's opened recently

called Marsha P Johnson park.

:

00:48:59,905 --> 00:49:03,085

And it's named after Marsha P

Johnson, who is a civil rights

:

00:49:03,085 --> 00:49:06,265

leader, a black trans activist.

:

00:49:06,385 --> 00:49:07,165

, Early eighties.

:

00:49:08,485 --> 00:49:08,935

Excellent.

:

00:49:08,935 --> 00:49:09,685

I can picture her.

:

00:49:10,495 --> 00:49:12,475

And like her phrase was pay it no mind.

:

00:49:12,535 --> 00:49:14,035

And so there is.

:

00:49:14,215 --> 00:49:14,905

So beautiful.

:

00:49:14,905 --> 00:49:16,135

They're making a park for her.

:

00:49:16,255 --> 00:49:18,205

And it's just opened and

it's really spectacular.

:

00:49:18,265 --> 00:49:18,655

Oh, my God.

:

00:49:18,655 --> 00:49:19,495

I love that.

:

00:49:19,525 --> 00:49:20,065

I love that.

:

00:49:20,575 --> 00:49:26,305

So this idea for this park was,

um, uh, earlier administration.

:

00:49:26,725 --> 00:49:30,355

Launched that like a state

park in Brooklyn should be

:

00:49:30,535 --> 00:49:32,005

dedicated to Marsha P Johnson.

:

00:49:32,455 --> 00:49:35,695

Which is a beautiful idea,

although technically for

:

00:49:35,695 --> 00:49:37,225

Marsha P Johnson regularly.

:

00:49:37,705 --> 00:49:39,445

Was was not this part of town.

:

00:49:40,095 --> 00:49:42,045

, so there's a little bit of a disconnect.

:

00:49:42,765 --> 00:49:43,365

Definitely.

:

00:49:43,485 --> 00:49:48,875

And so there was, , a local community

who is not necessarily appreciative of

:

00:49:48,875 --> 00:49:51,875

this, like reinvisioning of their existing

product, which was the only place they

:

00:49:51,875 --> 00:49:53,315

could go during COVID to get outside.

:

00:49:53,675 --> 00:49:55,145

Or like one of the very few places.

:

00:49:55,745 --> 00:49:59,465

And the initial idea was like, there are

these huge, asphalt and concrete pads.

:

00:49:59,975 --> 00:50:03,215

On the property because it, you know,

it was a former industrial dock yard.

:

00:50:03,365 --> 00:50:03,725

Okay.

:

00:50:03,785 --> 00:50:06,755

I don't know exactly what it was,

but there are a number of community

:

00:50:06,755 --> 00:50:07,805

events that happened there now.

:

00:50:07,805 --> 00:50:11,405

They do big community events, but mostly

it was just like, people liked it because

:

00:50:11,405 --> 00:50:15,095

it was a place they could go and they were

allowed to be there in public, outside.

:

00:50:15,935 --> 00:50:19,925

And the, they were going to close the

park to do this construction and the

:

00:50:19,925 --> 00:50:21,785

construction was going to be painting.

:

00:50:22,145 --> 00:50:27,035

The like a mural onto the asphalt that

commemorated Marsha P Johnson and the

:

00:50:27,065 --> 00:50:28,475

community was like, absolutely not.

:

00:50:28,745 --> 00:50:29,045

Hmm.

:

00:50:29,385 --> 00:50:31,605

, this is a really politically charged park.

:

00:50:31,815 --> 00:50:32,205

Okay.

:

00:50:33,415 --> 00:50:34,135

, so.

:

00:50:34,855 --> 00:50:38,305

Our firm was brought in to lead a

community engagement process, like an

:

00:50:38,305 --> 00:50:40,285

authentic community engagement process.

:

00:50:40,915 --> 00:50:44,905

And we spent, I think it

was 40 hours of direct.

:

00:50:45,265 --> 00:50:51,585

In-person and virtual, but directly

public facing time in , Early:

:

00:50:52,705 --> 00:50:56,575

, and it was a combination of

initially just listening, giving

:

00:50:56,575 --> 00:50:58,105

people the opportunity to talk.

:

00:50:58,345 --> 00:51:01,255

And so it was all of these different

communities who lived in the area

:

00:51:01,255 --> 00:51:04,465

in Brooklyn, but also bringing

in Marsha P Johnson family.

:

00:51:04,955 --> 00:51:08,795

, activists and the gay community

and the trans community.

:

00:51:09,275 --> 00:51:12,815

And attempting to have a

conversation that involved everyone.

:

00:51:13,325 --> 00:51:16,745

And the first stage was listening and

confirming that we heard correctly.

:

00:51:17,855 --> 00:51:20,195

And that was really involved.

:

00:51:20,195 --> 00:51:24,965

And honestly, it was really moving for

me because I, there were a lot of voices

:

00:51:24,965 --> 00:51:26,315

I wouldn't have normally gotten to hear.

:

00:51:26,435 --> 00:51:26,885

Yeah.

:

00:51:27,305 --> 00:51:29,225

And then we would bring it back to them.

:

00:51:29,765 --> 00:51:33,545

This is where if the, the people who

were in person, but they would say,

:

00:51:33,545 --> 00:51:37,655

all right, we heard you say this and

this, and this does this express that.

:

00:51:38,105 --> 00:51:40,565

And actually it would put different

designs in front of them and say,

:

00:51:40,565 --> 00:51:42,155

is this way, is this what you want?

:

00:51:42,155 --> 00:51:42,755

Is this better?

:

00:51:43,175 --> 00:51:45,245

We want a safe place for that's very cool.

:

00:51:45,275 --> 00:51:47,885

Like homeless youth to be able

to go, does this create it?

:

00:51:47,945 --> 00:51:50,385

Oh, we need to create what used

to be called a conversation,

:

00:51:50,385 --> 00:51:51,345

but like a restroom.

:

00:51:52,005 --> 00:51:52,365

You know.

:

00:51:52,455 --> 00:51:52,845

Okay.

:

00:51:52,905 --> 00:51:55,275

We'll we'll include that, , that

wasn't in the initial idea and

:

00:51:55,305 --> 00:51:56,955

sort of build up this whole design.

:

00:51:57,495 --> 00:52:01,335

And now there are all of these different

communities who feel a real, authentic

:

00:52:01,335 --> 00:52:04,335

connection to the place who wouldn't have

otherwise had that opportunity because

:

00:52:04,335 --> 00:52:06,765

there was like a real public engagement.

:

00:52:07,125 --> 00:52:09,885

That happened that so often

doesn't get the chance to happen.

:

00:52:10,245 --> 00:52:10,845

That's amazing.

:

00:52:11,325 --> 00:52:13,515

That's a prop to New York

state parks for that one.

:

00:52:13,545 --> 00:52:14,085

That's that?

:

00:52:14,265 --> 00:52:15,645

That's really, really cool.

:

00:52:15,675 --> 00:52:18,015

So in addition to it being a

beautiful functional park at.

:

00:52:18,825 --> 00:52:20,205

Is a great place to be.

:

00:52:20,205 --> 00:52:22,455

People can get to the,

to the water from there.

:

00:52:22,515 --> 00:52:24,105

Yeah, maybe not legally, but you can.

:

00:52:24,135 --> 00:52:24,255

So.

:

00:52:24,945 --> 00:52:27,585

I guess another part of landscape.

:

00:52:27,855 --> 00:52:30,885

Architecture is putting up . Have

you ever seen those benches or

:

00:52:30,885 --> 00:52:33,255

places where houseless people could.

:

00:52:33,765 --> 00:52:34,365

Sleep.

:

00:52:34,485 --> 00:52:38,195

And they put spike spikes in it

or something like that so that

:

00:52:38,195 --> 00:52:39,545

they can't sleep there anymore.

:

00:52:39,575 --> 00:52:42,275

Is that like another side

of landscape architecture?

:

00:52:42,335 --> 00:52:42,605

Yes.

:

00:52:42,605 --> 00:52:44,345

There is a lot of conversation about that.

:

00:52:44,405 --> 00:52:45,695

I would assume they're ill.

:

00:52:46,055 --> 00:52:50,615

Yeah, I would assume because there's,

you know, It's I always find it sad.

:

00:52:50,675 --> 00:52:51,845

I'm always like, no, of course.

:

00:52:52,295 --> 00:52:52,745

Are you kidding?

:

00:52:52,805 --> 00:52:55,145

Going out of your way to make

sure this human can't lay down.

:

00:52:55,205 --> 00:52:55,595

Yeah.

:

00:52:55,595 --> 00:52:55,955

Yeah.

:

00:52:56,225 --> 00:52:56,645

It's hostile.

:

00:52:57,815 --> 00:52:58,745

It is hostile.

:

00:52:58,955 --> 00:52:59,495

Yeah.

:

00:52:59,915 --> 00:53:04,025

And I it's hard to, because there

are professionals who are put in this

:

00:53:04,025 --> 00:53:06,725

position where they're being hired to

do something that they don't necessarily

:

00:53:06,725 --> 00:53:09,515

agree with, but they don't feel like

they have the agency to push back.

:

00:53:09,905 --> 00:53:12,785

So I'm fortunate to not

currently be working with any

:

00:53:12,785 --> 00:53:14,015

of those kinds of clients.

:

00:53:14,075 --> 00:53:14,525

Right.

:

00:53:14,835 --> 00:53:16,755

, but I have in the past and it sucks.

:

00:53:16,785 --> 00:53:17,265

Yeah.

:

00:53:17,385 --> 00:53:17,835

Wow.

:

00:53:17,955 --> 00:53:18,675

It's very tough.

:

00:53:18,735 --> 00:53:19,005

Yeah.

:

00:53:19,035 --> 00:53:19,995

I never even thought of that.

:

00:53:19,995 --> 00:53:22,095

I never even thought that that's

something under the umbrella

:

00:53:22,095 --> 00:53:23,175

of landscape architecture.

:

00:53:23,415 --> 00:53:25,455

So it is something that

we'll we talk about.

:

00:53:25,455 --> 00:53:28,665

We try to sway someone if they're

trying, if they want to have this

:

00:53:28,665 --> 00:53:33,525

really aggressive place, but I mean,

so much of how a place is designed.

:

00:53:34,335 --> 00:53:36,885

Impacts who feels safe

and comfortable using it.

:

00:53:37,005 --> 00:53:37,485

Right.

:

00:53:37,845 --> 00:53:40,605

And sometimes it's the really directly

and physical, like we're going to have

:

00:53:40,635 --> 00:53:44,145

a bench with an arm in the very middle

so that it's uncomfortable to lay down.

:

00:53:44,935 --> 00:53:47,425

And sometimes it's less obvious, like.

:

00:53:48,265 --> 00:53:52,465

No benches places, you know, very

wide open and it doesn't just doesn't

:

00:53:52,465 --> 00:53:55,555

feel safe to walk through because

it's super exposed and there are no.

:

00:53:55,665 --> 00:53:56,595

, you know, nooks.

:

00:53:56,715 --> 00:53:57,225

Yeah.

:

00:53:57,435 --> 00:53:59,565

So sometimes it's subtle

and sometimes it's obvious.

:

00:53:59,595 --> 00:53:59,835

Yeah.

:

00:53:59,865 --> 00:54:00,375

Interesting.

:

00:54:00,435 --> 00:54:00,645

Yeah.

:

00:54:00,735 --> 00:54:03,075

And also so much of the

influence has to be the person.

:

00:54:03,105 --> 00:54:04,455

Pay for it, obviously.

:

00:54:04,485 --> 00:54:04,815

Yeah.

:

00:54:04,845 --> 00:54:07,545

That's, that's the real issue

with landscape architecture as.

:

00:54:07,605 --> 00:54:10,665

We have ideas, but we aren't

generally the ones financing it.

:

00:54:10,995 --> 00:54:13,815

I mean, I think that that goes

into what we talked about earlier,

:

00:54:13,815 --> 00:54:15,495

where some is private firms.

:

00:54:15,495 --> 00:54:18,465

Some is governmental and when it

is governmental it's it's like,

:

00:54:18,465 --> 00:54:20,655

okay, we, we try to get community.

:

00:54:21,015 --> 00:54:23,955

Voices, but like obviously

some communities do much

:

00:54:23,955 --> 00:54:25,425

better than other communities.

:

00:54:25,735 --> 00:54:28,585

And there are a lot of

people in the, um, Atlanta.

:

00:54:28,915 --> 00:54:32,095

Like public world who are

trying very hard to do.

:

00:54:32,575 --> 00:54:33,655

Great job with this.

:

00:54:33,685 --> 00:54:34,075

Yeah.

:

00:54:34,105 --> 00:54:36,715

They don't always have the resources

to do it, but there are people

:

00:54:36,715 --> 00:54:39,325

who are doing excellent work,

whether it's like park pride.

:

00:54:39,955 --> 00:54:42,475

Uh, department of watershed

management, city of Atlanta parks,

:

00:54:42,475 --> 00:54:45,685

there, there are people doing

really good work, but it's hard to.

:

00:54:46,225 --> 00:54:50,095

Like, I think if the public makes known

that it's important to us, They will

:

00:54:50,095 --> 00:54:51,535

have much more support in doing that.

:

00:54:51,955 --> 00:54:52,855

Yeah, I love that.

:

00:54:52,915 --> 00:54:56,155

And I think talking on a podcast about

stuff like that is really important.

:

00:54:56,455 --> 00:54:57,025

Absolutely.

:

00:54:58,195 --> 00:55:00,475

valuable to our listeners and to meet.

:

00:55:01,585 --> 00:55:03,895

Most importantly, Most importantly,

:

00:55:05,485 --> 00:55:08,965

Kind of Wheeler and do

everything about this wrong.

:

00:55:09,775 --> 00:55:12,175

No, but like, it's very cool.

:

00:55:12,235 --> 00:55:13,015

It's very, very cool.

:

00:55:13,165 --> 00:55:14,425

But it's a hard question too.

:

00:55:14,425 --> 00:55:17,335

Like what do you like, what

do you do as a normal person?

:

00:55:17,365 --> 00:55:17,725

Yeah.

:

00:55:18,085 --> 00:55:18,925

How do you plug.

:

00:55:19,015 --> 00:55:22,735

How would someone post about it on

Instagram and then you don't do anything.

:

00:55:23,425 --> 00:55:23,995

Oh, my God.

:

00:55:24,625 --> 00:55:25,845

I think , It'd be cool.

:

00:55:25,845 --> 00:55:30,465

If there, if there was like forms

of organizations that were dedicated

:

00:55:30,465 --> 00:55:33,795

to specifically this and like

maybe someone listening wants to

:

00:55:33,795 --> 00:55:36,885

start one, maybe something like

that could happen and , yeah.

:

00:55:37,365 --> 00:55:40,905

You know, and then Erica and I could

talk about it on our podcast and

:

00:55:40,905 --> 00:55:42,105

get other people involved in it.

:

00:55:42,105 --> 00:55:43,965

And then we can have a

whole little thing happen.

:

00:55:44,205 --> 00:55:45,735

I'm here to support , the vision.

:

00:55:45,765 --> 00:55:46,845

Yeah, let's do it.

:

00:55:46,875 --> 00:55:48,765

Some, one of our listeners take it on.

:

00:55:48,825 --> 00:55:49,575

You can do it.

:

00:55:49,905 --> 00:55:53,655

So in Atlanta, the city is divided

into neighborhood planning units and

:

00:55:53,655 --> 00:55:56,535

you'll see that NPU N is meeting.

:

00:55:57,195 --> 00:55:59,055

And you think, man, I

don't have time for that.

:

00:55:59,655 --> 00:56:00,255

Uh, yeah.

:

00:56:00,345 --> 00:56:06,975

If you make time for that, that is

one of the very few ways that of an

:

00:56:06,975 --> 00:56:11,145

individual's voice has real sway over

development decisions in the city.

:

00:56:11,295 --> 00:56:11,715

Okay.

:

00:56:11,745 --> 00:56:13,995

So, so where do we find those meetings?

:

00:56:13,995 --> 00:56:15,045

Like, how can we.

:

00:56:15,825 --> 00:56:16,755

Very good question.

:

00:56:18,225 --> 00:56:19,305

Neighborhood planning unit.

:

00:56:19,335 --> 00:56:23,625

So you can look them up online

to see which unit you fall in.

:

00:56:23,685 --> 00:56:27,525

And it's a way for citizens to have direct

representation in the city government.

:

00:56:27,525 --> 00:56:29,745

It's actually pretty

uncommon and revolutionary.

:

00:56:29,775 --> 00:56:33,135

We've not done a great job of

supporting them over the past.

:

00:56:33,342 --> 00:56:34,032

Many years.

:

00:56:34,422 --> 00:56:36,522

But it's the mechanism is still there.

:

00:56:36,522 --> 00:56:38,292

That's not just like, Hey, vote.

:

00:56:38,592 --> 00:56:40,062

Yeah, which is also important, right?

:

00:56:40,062 --> 00:56:41,832

Like is, you know, less direct.

:

00:56:41,922 --> 00:56:42,162

Yeah.

:

00:56:42,252 --> 00:56:44,442

This is the way that you can show

up and have your voice heard.

:

00:56:44,442 --> 00:56:48,412

And then it gets reflected into city

council and, development decisions.

:

00:56:48,472 --> 00:56:53,742

And I think people to forget that

we can do things it is not just.

:

00:56:54,252 --> 00:56:58,292

Like, like you guys pick up trash, , even

though it's probably not helping the state

:

00:56:58,292 --> 00:57:00,722

of the world, obviously, My sidewalk.

:

00:57:00,812 --> 00:57:01,262

Yeah.

:

00:57:01,682 --> 00:57:05,672

There are things that we can do as

a community to improve the community.

:

00:57:05,972 --> 00:57:08,822

But we have to do things that are out

of our comfort zone, like go to these

:

00:57:08,822 --> 00:57:12,502

meetings and look them up, which

is that's out of our comfort zone.

:

00:57:12,532 --> 00:57:15,452

Most of the time, I feel like I'm

speaking for a lot of people, but.

:

00:57:15,498 --> 00:57:17,058

I'm going to speak for myself in this.

:

00:57:17,118 --> 00:57:22,278

I feel like I can't do anything

about it and I, why would I, because

:

00:57:22,278 --> 00:57:23,538

the state of the world sucks.

:

00:57:23,818 --> 00:57:26,458

It's just everything's bad and

I can't do anything about it.

:

00:57:26,458 --> 00:57:27,208

So why try.

:

00:57:27,548 --> 00:57:30,608

, but then people like you tell me

things like that and I'm like, oh

:

00:57:31,028 --> 00:57:34,388

wait, there are things I just choose

to literally ignore them all the time.

:

00:57:34,798 --> 00:57:38,548

, it's all the more reason to

focus on your micro influence.

:

00:57:38,578 --> 00:57:41,938

And if you think all across the

country, a lot of people take

:

00:57:41,998 --> 00:57:46,648

an interest in the things that

impact them on a very local basis.

:

00:57:46,918 --> 00:57:50,158

What that could do for the

world in 10, 15, 20 years.

:

00:57:50,218 --> 00:57:50,728

Yeah.

:

00:57:50,788 --> 00:57:52,318

Local government matters.

:

00:57:53,218 --> 00:57:55,528

At least participating in

local government matters.

:

00:57:56,038 --> 00:57:57,388

Here here, here, here.

:

00:57:57,688 --> 00:58:01,618

And we'll maybe put a link to how to

find your neighborhood planning unit.

:

00:58:01,798 --> 00:58:03,118

I was going to say that.

:

00:58:04,858 --> 00:58:05,758

Yeah, absolutely.

:

00:58:06,228 --> 00:58:09,318

For people who are in Atlanta, but

wherever you are, like, there's some

:

00:58:09,318 --> 00:58:11,418

sort of, there's your version of this.

:

00:58:11,448 --> 00:58:11,748

Yeah.

:

00:58:11,778 --> 00:58:12,768

There are ways to get involved.

:

00:58:12,798 --> 00:58:13,338

Yeah.

:

00:58:13,398 --> 00:58:13,878

I love that.

:

00:58:13,968 --> 00:58:14,358

Also.

:

00:58:14,408 --> 00:58:16,388

, In Atlanta, there's the

Atlanta BeltLine that.

:

00:58:17,018 --> 00:58:17,558

Yes.

:

00:58:18,068 --> 00:58:20,528

Sometimes there are events that

happen and a lot of those events

:

00:58:20,528 --> 00:58:23,048

are put on by this group called

the crew of grateful gluttons.

:

00:58:23,678 --> 00:58:26,798

And they're a fantastic organization.

:

00:58:27,308 --> 00:58:30,848

Where they just like, bring like

winsy and play to people's lives.

:

00:58:30,938 --> 00:58:33,368

And so sometimes they'll just

happen upon the spontaneous

:

00:58:33,398 --> 00:58:35,018

moment and it's often them.

:

00:58:35,468 --> 00:58:36,008

I love that.

:

00:58:36,258 --> 00:58:37,338

They organized.

:

00:58:37,698 --> 00:58:39,738

A butterfly parade.

:

00:58:39,888 --> 00:58:42,888

The period of the monarchs on the

BeltLine a couple of weeks ago.

:

00:58:43,998 --> 00:58:44,898

So cool.

:

00:58:46,458 --> 00:58:48,708

To support, , little Amal who's this lady.

:

00:58:48,888 --> 00:58:50,838

12 foot tall puppet.

:

00:58:51,388 --> 00:58:52,948

, traveling the world to.

:

00:58:53,728 --> 00:58:56,728

Raise awareness of, , refugee

children specifically.

:

00:58:57,658 --> 00:59:00,118

And so every place that little

and wall goes that like people

:

00:59:00,118 --> 00:59:01,318

greet her in different ways.

:

00:59:01,318 --> 00:59:03,328

And in this case, They put on this.

:

00:59:03,838 --> 00:59:07,468

Hundred person, Monarch

butterfly like events.

:

00:59:07,708 --> 00:59:08,248

Whoa.

:

00:59:08,488 --> 00:59:11,548

And my husband, Chris and I had , signed

up for this because I just think

:

00:59:11,548 --> 00:59:12,958

that it's a really cool organization.

:

00:59:13,018 --> 00:59:13,438

Yeah.

:

00:59:13,678 --> 00:59:16,678

And we went to the rehearsal

and, , they were saying.

:

00:59:17,368 --> 00:59:18,448

If you look around.

:

00:59:19,408 --> 00:59:21,568

And you see your city and

you're like, man, there's

:

00:59:21,568 --> 00:59:22,768

nothing going on in this city.

:

00:59:22,798 --> 00:59:23,278

The sucks.

:

00:59:24,058 --> 00:59:28,648

What are you personally doing

physically to make things better?

:

00:59:28,738 --> 00:59:31,558

And I was like, oh, oh me, God.

:

00:59:32,728 --> 00:59:33,268

Oh, damn.

:

00:59:34,348 --> 00:59:35,488

That's so true though.

:

00:59:35,518 --> 00:59:35,938

Yeah.

:

00:59:35,968 --> 00:59:40,048

Because if everybody has their

own little something that they do.

:

00:59:40,048 --> 00:59:40,768

The world will be better.

:

00:59:41,008 --> 00:59:41,308

Okay.

:

00:59:41,308 --> 00:59:43,078

Well, I'm going to go to one meeting.

:

00:59:43,078 --> 00:59:44,278

At least I'm going to.

:

00:59:45,298 --> 00:59:46,468

You got to start small.

:

00:59:46,888 --> 00:59:47,668

You know, you can't.

:

00:59:48,058 --> 00:59:48,538

Okay, good.

:

00:59:48,568 --> 00:59:48,598

One.

:

00:59:49,588 --> 00:59:50,968

We're going to be really opinionated.

:

00:59:52,048 --> 00:59:53,578

One meeting would be huge.

:

00:59:53,998 --> 00:59:57,298

So a few people participate that you

actually do have a voice on them.

:

00:59:57,388 --> 00:59:57,718

Yeah.

:

00:59:57,718 --> 01:00:00,718

That's the thing like, like

if we can all just go to one

:

01:00:00,718 --> 01:00:03,088

meeting or like do one thing.

:

01:00:03,268 --> 01:00:03,778

Yeah.

:

01:00:03,838 --> 01:00:05,188

It'll at least help a little bit.

:

01:00:05,698 --> 01:00:05,908

Yeah.

:

01:00:05,908 --> 01:00:09,688

And if you see something that you like

reach out to your local reps about that

:

01:00:09,688 --> 01:00:13,348

too, I feel like man, they just did a

really fantastic job with this, whatever.

:

01:00:13,408 --> 01:00:13,888

Yeah.

:

01:00:14,248 --> 01:00:15,898

Don't don't just reach

out when it's problems.

:

01:00:15,958 --> 01:00:16,438

Right.

:

01:00:16,498 --> 01:00:17,728

Say the good out loud.

:

01:00:18,118 --> 01:00:19,115

Say the good out loud.

:

01:00:23,015 --> 01:00:25,025

Oh, my gosh, I it's been

awhile since I did that.

:

01:00:25,025 --> 01:00:25,505

So I had that.

:

01:00:26,195 --> 01:00:27,005

Had to bring it home.

:

01:00:27,545 --> 01:00:28,205

I love that.

:

01:00:28,865 --> 01:00:31,085

Um, Anything else on your notes?

:

01:00:31,105 --> 01:00:31,885

I have a ghost.

:

01:00:31,915 --> 01:00:32,755

Tie-in oh,

:

01:00:34,825 --> 01:00:36,445

And what there's a ghost at the meetings.

:

01:00:39,025 --> 01:00:43,735

No it's ghosts and hobbies, because

I was thinking of the movie ghost.

:

01:00:44,635 --> 01:00:46,405

In which there is a pottery scene.

:

01:00:47,515 --> 01:00:48,475

A pottery scene.

:

01:00:49,585 --> 01:00:50,035

Pottery.

:

01:00:50,275 --> 01:00:51,385

I've never seen it.

:

01:00:52,435 --> 01:00:53,965

I don't remember if it's a good movie.

:

01:00:53,965 --> 01:00:54,955

So I don't know if you should say.

:

01:00:55,765 --> 01:00:57,805

A good movie, but it's

like a classic movie.

:

01:00:58,105 --> 01:01:00,355

What she's referencing

is like, Very class.

:

01:01:00,475 --> 01:01:00,895

Okay.

:

01:01:01,885 --> 01:01:03,595

Pull up like a 32nd clip of it.

:

01:01:04,555 --> 01:01:05,035

I will.

:

01:01:05,065 --> 01:01:05,425

Yeah.

:

01:01:05,905 --> 01:01:07,015

Yes, you would.

:

01:01:07,915 --> 01:01:09,505

But yeah, I started doing pottery.

:

01:01:09,715 --> 01:01:10,435

Oh, my husband.

:

01:01:10,735 --> 01:01:12,685

A couple of years ago,

and it's really fun.

:

01:01:12,715 --> 01:01:15,805

And it's, it turns out it's great to

like, make things with your hands.

:

01:01:15,865 --> 01:01:16,405

Yes.

:

01:01:16,465 --> 01:01:19,165

I've been wanting to

do pottery for so long.

:

01:01:19,165 --> 01:01:21,355

I'm definitely going to

talk to you about this.

:

01:01:21,355 --> 01:01:22,105

Should do it.

:

01:01:22,315 --> 01:01:23,005

Wow.

:

01:01:23,335 --> 01:01:26,455

I want, I'm going to eventually,

but first go to your meeting.

:

01:01:26,575 --> 01:01:26,605

Yeah.

:

01:01:27,475 --> 01:01:28,345

You can do both.

:

01:01:29,935 --> 01:01:30,955

So cool.

:

01:01:30,985 --> 01:01:31,345

Oh my God.

:

01:01:31,345 --> 01:01:32,065

I love pottery.

:

01:01:32,065 --> 01:01:32,305

Yes.

:

01:01:32,365 --> 01:01:35,585

Jenny Lynn and her husband are

extremely talented and, , in between

:

01:01:35,615 --> 01:01:38,975

being good Samaritans to create

this beautiful art on the side.

:

01:01:39,815 --> 01:01:40,355

Unreal.

:

01:01:40,475 --> 01:01:42,005

Yeah, he's super good.

:

01:01:42,125 --> 01:01:43,325

He's extremely good.

:

01:01:43,355 --> 01:01:45,605

It's like at first I was

competitive about it and sort

:

01:01:45,605 --> 01:01:47,405

of like wished I was that good.

:

01:01:47,615 --> 01:01:47,975

Yeah.

:

01:01:48,125 --> 01:01:50,135

Now I'm just really excited

that he's really clear.

:

01:01:50,555 --> 01:01:51,425

Oh, let them have that.

:

01:01:51,455 --> 01:01:52,385

Yeah, no.

:

01:01:52,985 --> 01:01:58,325

I have my, my parts that I love doing, but

he's like authentically or really good.

:

01:01:58,325 --> 01:01:59,225

Ceramicist.

:

01:01:59,465 --> 01:02:00,695

It's just beautiful to see.

:

01:02:00,845 --> 01:02:03,005

Oh, yeah, that's fine.

:

01:02:03,005 --> 01:02:03,125

That's.

:

01:02:05,105 --> 01:02:08,195

We love that, Erica, is there anything

else that you want to talk about today?

:

01:02:12,305 --> 01:02:13,445

We've covered a lot.

:

01:02:14,435 --> 01:02:16,265

No, I just, I.

:

01:02:17,225 --> 01:02:17,675

It's.

:

01:02:17,675 --> 01:02:22,535

Nice having you back, Kelly, and it's

nice having you, uh, with us, Jenny

:

01:02:22,535 --> 01:02:25,985

Lynn, because, you know, is it the

best smell test or the best doll test?

:

01:02:25,985 --> 01:02:26,105

Do you.

:

01:02:27,035 --> 01:02:27,905

Bechdel test.

:

01:02:28,415 --> 01:02:29,615

I asked the person.

:

01:02:30,665 --> 01:02:33,575

I was thinking about this the other day,

and this is something that's important

:

01:02:33,575 --> 01:02:38,465

to me, but this episode is such a

good example of a form of media that a

:

01:02:38,465 --> 01:02:41,315

hundred percent passes the Bechdel test.

:

01:02:41,435 --> 01:02:42,845

Bechtle Bachtel test.

:

01:02:43,085 --> 01:02:46,535

And if you don't know what

that is, it is a scene in a.

:

01:02:46,895 --> 01:02:51,605

Like event in any sort of form of

media that involves a women talking.

:

01:02:52,055 --> 01:02:53,225

Not about men.

:

01:02:53,275 --> 01:02:55,495

Yeah, it was specifically made for film.

:

01:02:55,735 --> 01:02:55,945

Okay.

:

01:02:56,425 --> 01:02:58,575

It's like a feminist film theorist.

:

01:02:59,535 --> 01:03:00,375

Came up with it.

:

01:03:00,765 --> 01:03:05,535

Um, and if you look up the Bachtel test

online, you can see lists of movies that

:

01:03:05,595 --> 01:03:08,145

pass or do not pass the Bechdel test.

:

01:03:08,175 --> 01:03:13,998

And you would be so surprised on

how many of your favorite films

:

01:03:13,998 --> 01:03:15,648

do not pass the Bechdel test.

:

01:03:15,888 --> 01:03:19,428

And it can be, I think I looked it

up the other day actually, and I.

:

01:03:19,728 --> 01:03:20,958

Might be quoting this wrong.

:

01:03:20,958 --> 01:03:25,828

So forgive me if I'm wrong, but,

, I'm pretty sure it's two women.

:

01:03:26,278 --> 01:03:27,568

Who have names?

:

01:03:28,828 --> 01:03:29,458

Like there.

:

01:03:29,518 --> 01:03:29,818

Yeah.

:

01:03:29,848 --> 01:03:30,928

Like they have a name.

:

01:03:31,288 --> 01:03:31,648

Yeah.

:

01:03:32,038 --> 01:03:36,568

Talking to each other about something

that doesn't involve a man and it can be.

:

01:03:37,198 --> 01:03:38,608

The shortest conversation.

:

01:03:38,668 --> 01:03:39,088

Yup.

:

01:03:39,328 --> 01:03:41,338

And so few things pass.

:

01:03:41,338 --> 01:03:42,088

So a few things.

:

01:03:43,318 --> 01:03:44,428

It is a really bad one.

:

01:03:44,848 --> 01:03:46,678

One of my favorite things,

which is the Hobbit.

:

01:03:46,948 --> 01:03:48,568

Like I was going to say Florida, the ring.

:

01:03:48,898 --> 01:03:51,058

There is not a conversation like.

:

01:03:51,388 --> 01:03:52,588

It's a zero out of 10.

:

01:03:52,648 --> 01:03:53,668

Like it's crazy.

:

01:03:53,668 --> 01:03:55,108

Yeah, it is just.

:

01:03:55,858 --> 01:03:58,828

Honestly, I would encourage everybody

to go look it up because it is.

:

01:03:59,098 --> 01:04:01,018

And then you'll be like, wow, Clover club.

:

01:04:01,048 --> 01:04:02,158

You guys are so good.

:

01:04:03,118 --> 01:04:04,258

Let's add a link to that too.

:

01:04:04,498 --> 01:04:05,248

Yeah, I love that.

:

01:04:05,328 --> 01:04:09,848

But yeah, I just, it's always lovely

to, be in a room with intelligent

:

01:04:09,848 --> 01:04:13,618

women, having conversations about

interesting things that, You know,

:

01:04:13,618 --> 01:04:15,268

I'm just excited to share with people.

:

01:04:15,268 --> 01:04:19,288

So Jenny Lynn, I so appreciate your time

and your knowledge and your expertise.

:

01:04:19,348 --> 01:04:19,678

Yeah.

:

01:04:20,578 --> 01:04:22,048

Kelly on a lot of great things.

:

01:04:22,228 --> 01:04:23,848

She's just the best idea.

:

01:04:25,108 --> 01:04:26,008

Yeah, I agree.

:

01:04:26,338 --> 01:04:27,148

I said it first.

:

01:04:28,348 --> 01:04:29,008

Thanks ladies.

:

01:04:29,678 --> 01:04:31,778

, so we have a lot that we'll

link in our show notes.

:

01:04:31,808 --> 01:04:35,078

And again, if you don't follow

us on social media, please.

:

01:04:35,448 --> 01:04:39,888

, give us a little follow at Clover

club pod, and as always our

:

01:04:39,888 --> 01:04:44,658

listeners get 10% off on all online

purchases@hawkinsonclover.com

:

01:04:44,658 --> 01:04:46,308

with code Clover club.

:

01:04:46,968 --> 01:04:47,808

All of them.

:

01:04:48,588 --> 01:04:49,158

All of them.

:

01:04:50,388 --> 01:04:53,418

But bill Clover club, all caps.

:

01:04:53,928 --> 01:04:54,798

That's your code.

:

01:04:55,278 --> 01:04:55,908

Put it in.

:

01:04:56,508 --> 01:04:57,108

Bitches.

:

01:05:00,948 --> 01:05:01,788

Thank you.

:

01:05:10,998 --> 01:05:11,958

yay.

Next Episode All Episodes Previous Episode
Clover Club Email Opt In

Clover Club Email Opt In

Thank you, you have been subscribed.

Listen for free

Show artwork for Clover Club

About the Podcast

Clover Club
Curious conversations and stories intended to make you laugh and learn.
As a shop owner and hair stylist with an impressive number of stamps on her passport, Erika Audrey has heard or experienced it all. And she's ready to share. These real life conversations and stories will make you laugh, cry, and gasp- sometimes in the same episode! Join Erika Audrey straight from Atlanta gift shop Hawkins & Clover. Welcome to Clover Club.

Thank you-
Theme Song: Nick Pantano of Sound Space https://www.soundspaceatl.com
Branding: Shari Margolin https://sharimargolindesignco.com

Contact-
pod@hawkinsandclover.com

About your host

Profile picture for Erika Audrey

Erika Audrey

Erika Audrey, a luminous presence hailing from the vibrant city of Atlanta, Georgia, is not your ordinary hairstylist and boutique owner. With a zest for life that's as contagious as her laughter, Erika is poised to take the podcasting world by storm as she embarks on her latest venture.

Launching her debut podcast is a natural extension of Erika's multifaceted personality. With an uncanny ability to seamlessly weave humor into her conversations, Erika's laughter-inducing anecdotes and razor-sharp wit are bound to captivate listeners. Her intelligence shines through as she tackles a diverse range of topics, proving that beneath the laughter lies substance and insight.