Episode 42

Young Blood

Published on: 1st April, 2025

In this episode of Clover Club, Erika sits down with Rebecca, the owner of Young Blood in Atlanta, for a candid conversation about the real-life rollercoaster of running a small brick-and-mortar business.

Together, they pull back the curtain on what it actually takes to build and sustain an independent retail space—from surviving the impacts of COVID, to navigating shifting political climates, to dealing with (ugh) the realities of crappy landlords.

If you’ve ever dreamed of being your own boss or just want a peek behind the scenes of small business ownership, this one's for you.

Shop Young Blood here

Shop Hawkins & Clover here

Transcript
Speaker:

Welcome to Clover Club, a podcast

about curious conversations and stories

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intended to make you laugh and learn.

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I'm your host, Erica, and today I

am honestly so excited to be joined

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by Rebecca, owner of Youngblood.

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Rebecca.

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Hi.

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Hello.

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How are you?

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So good.

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So happy to be here.

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Thanks for having me.

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The pleasure is mine.

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So if you're listening, Rebecca

and I met like 30 minutes ago.

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Um, but we have so many mutual friends

and then we kind of started chitchatting

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on Instagram and became digital friends.

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Yes.

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, but we obviously have a lot in common

because we both own brick and mortar

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retail stores in the city of Atlanta.

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And so we were like, you know,

I think we should sit down

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and and have a little chat.

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Yeah.

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And so that's what you're

listening to today, everybody.

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, so Rebecca.

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Youngblood is in Kaler Park?

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Yes.

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Okay.

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And you have owned

Youngblood for how long?

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, 12 years.

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Okay.

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Just that.

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Just that.

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Mm-hmm.

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, that's funny.

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I'm almost at 12 years here.

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Oh, good.

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, that's a good amount of time.

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Happy 12 year anniversary.

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Thank you.

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And same to you.

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, so you, I didn't know this

until we were chatting before

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this, but you bought Youngblood?

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Yes.

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Okay.

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And so, . When, how, when

was it initially opened?

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So actually Youngblood was

founded in Atlanta in:

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Wow.

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Okay.

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, by Maggie and Kelly, , they

opened it as an art gallery.

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, at first it was only an art gallery

for, , young, independent, emerging

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artists, hence the name Youngblood.

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Ah.

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, and it, I, I think their first

show was actually in their house.

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They hung a house show.

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They mo the story goes as far

as I remember, that they moved

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all their furniture out and hung

a gallery show in their house.

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Wow.

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, and then I think a few years

later, they moved to an old

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TV repair shop in Grant Park.

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Um, and that's where a lot of people who

first started going to Youngblood when

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the boutique component was added in.

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. That's the first shop they remember

is going to the grant park location.

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Okay.

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Um, and so there, they started folding

in handmade, , items mostly from what I

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remember that their friends were making.

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This was pre Etsy, pre the, you know,

quote makers movement or whatever.

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, that ended up coming.

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, and then in 2007 they

moved to Highland Row.

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Yes.

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Which is where I came to know them.

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Same.

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And I started working for them in 2009.

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Oh.

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Part-time while I was finishing up

my decade long undergrad pursuit.

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Um, and, , in 2012,

right after their 15th.

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Anniversary of having the shop,

they decided they wanted to

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move on and do other things.

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And I was kind of at like a precipice.

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Do I wanna go to grad school?

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Do I, what do I wanna do?

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Yeah.

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, and I've always been in retail since I

was 15 and I kind of saw it as the perfect

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opportunity to marry two things that I

loved, art, craft design with retail.

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Yeah.

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, and I just was like, you know, I don't

think this opportunity will just happen

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again to be able to, , jump onto a moving

ship, so to speak, and then, you know,

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try to steer it where I want to see it go.

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, so I just, you know.

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Just gave it a shot.

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I love that.

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And, uh, you're right.

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That's the type of opportunity

where it's like, I may not have

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anticipated this in my life path,

but it's like a big fork in the road.

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Yeah.

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, what were you studying in school?

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Drawing and painting.

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Okay.

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So you are an artsy person.

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Yeah.

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I went to Georgia State, , and, , gotta

a BFA in drawing and painting there and

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had a pretty like, robust studio practice.

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I had a studio over at the

goat farm for a little while.

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Cool.

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And was really like deep in that

practice and was, was pretty close

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to going to grad school, but I

would've had to have moved to Chicago.

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And at, at that time, , I

was pretty clear-eyed that.

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If I went to grad school, it, it would

probably mean that it was because

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I maybe wanted to be a professor.

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Okay.

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Which actually I didn't

wanna be a professor.

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Yeah.

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Um, and so I was like,

why would I do that?

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What am I doing this for?

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More studio time is the answer.

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But I was like unsure about if I would

have like graduate debt or I just like,

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didn't I, I couldn't get to yes on it.

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And I was literally in the middle

of kind of really trying to

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untangle that and figure it out.

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And it also happened to simultaneously

be, there was this period of time

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where, , opportunities for people to make

a decent living as a professor started.

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Really changing and shifting because

of the healthcare requirements

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that were put on universities.

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Yeah.

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Instead of complying with that and

going ahead and giving their professors,

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, healthcare, they just decided to

eliminate full-time professorships

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and make everyone part-time instead.

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Um, and it became harder and

harder to actually live a

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decent life being a professor.

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Yeah.

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And so it just felt like, well, I

don't, that path doesn't seem stable.

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Right.

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And neither does this one, but.

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This one seems fun.

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Yeah.

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Less bureaucratic.

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Haha.

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I mean, sort of, but

you know, I don't know.

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Yeah.

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I just, yeah, that makes sense.

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Have you been to the goat

farm since they reopened?

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Not yet.

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I, I want to go.

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It's so amazing.

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I, your, your mind will be blown,

like having been that the pictures

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look like it, like OG days.

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Mm-hmm.

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I also, I have a very good friend

who, , I spent like a decade

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spending every Thursday night at the

goat farm of like pre-renovation.

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Yeah.

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, and going back now, yeah.

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It's just like, holy shit.

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Okay.

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So, , did you ever, like, when

you were a kid, were you like,

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I wanna own a retail shop?

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Sort of.

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Okay.

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, sort of, yeah.

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My great grandparents had a store.

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Cool.

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, I never went to it.

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It was in Anderson, Alabama.

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And from what I remember being

told, I think it was some sort

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of like hardware store situation.

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Okay.

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But in their house, in their

sunroom, they had all of this.

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Old equipment like this early 19 hundreds

cash register and like all this fun stuff

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that I would just love playing with.

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Yeah.

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, I always wanted to play

store all the time.

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I've always loved stores.

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Yes.

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, just conceptually, like, , was always

when I was a kid, super into the

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windows and, , just, it always felt

like a really magical place to me.

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Yeah.

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, and so when I was 15 and I got my first

job, I was like, obviously, like, I feel

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like a lot of people go, should I go into

food service or should I go into retail?

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Totally.

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And I went retail.

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Yeah.

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I tried to be a waiter one time and

it was one night, and then me Oh boy.

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And the owner were both

like, this wasn't good.

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Right.

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Like, it was just not, like,

it didn't work out for me.

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Yeah.

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Um, but uh, yeah, I've

just always loved it.

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I've always worked in retail,

I've worked small business retail,

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I've worked corporate retail.

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, and I just, I love it.

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I, I.

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So, yes, I always loved it.

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Yeah.

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But I don't know if I actually really,

truly thought I would have a store.

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Okay.

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I, I don't know if it was something

I really thought about like that.

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Yeah.

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I was 27 when this opportunity came up.

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Okay.

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So, um, still very much trying

to figure out what am I doing?

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Yeah.

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So yeah, I don't know.

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I don't know that I really did necessarily

ever think it would be something that I

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would do, but I did just always love it.

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Yeah.

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And you like accidentally

prepared for this.

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Yes.

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From the age of 15.

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Yes, exactly.

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Yeah.

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I remember as a kid.

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In elementary school, we had like

a fake grocery store and you could

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like ring up like the plastic

bananas stuff it and stuff like that.

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And the cash register and , ooh,

the thrill and exhilaration of using

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that like Fisher-Price cash register.

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And then I, my dad was a small business

owner and he would take me to work like

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trade shows with him and I would get

to use the cash register and like bag

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up people's orders and stuff like that.

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That's so cool.

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And , I realized in hindsight, did you

remember you, you mentioned magic, , uh.

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Do you remember Practical Magic?

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Oh, of course.

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That okay.

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Um, in hindsight, 'cause I rewatched

it, I think a year or two ago,

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the Lavender Store, the like, yes.

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I was like, I think there were like

these iconic movies that I grew

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up watching that just like totally

romanticized the like whimsy Yes.

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Of having just cute little local,

totally little brick and mortar shop.

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Yeah.

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But I wonder, I, so I've had leaned hard

into the retail for the past five years.

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Yeah.

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That was kind of like a

right before Covid decision.

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Yay.

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But the realities of it have

been very different from my

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romanticized version of it.

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, I think it's kind of like if you

love fine dining, like working in

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a restaurant will maybe not make

you love fine dining the same Yes.

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Like once you see behind the curtain.

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, but have you, do you still love it just

as much or at, in this 12 year experience,

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have you had discoveries and experiences

and things like that where you're like.

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Hmm.

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Yeah.

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I, I do still love it.

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, , my experience with it, I would

say, has kind of been very

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cyclical or wave-like Okay.

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, there's been periods of time

where I've loved it less Sure.

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And periods of time

where I've loved it more.

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Yeah.

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, Right now obviously is a very difficult

time for all small business retail, I mean

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retail and small businesses in general.

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Mm-hmm.

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But for small business retail in

particular, across the board, , every

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small business owner that I've

been talking to for the past

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couple of years is just like, help.

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Yeah.

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What's going on?

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You know?

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Yeah.

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, and we've seen, you know, on social

media every other day there's

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another indie retail shop, you

know, closing down, closing down.

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Yes.

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, and so.

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Right now is probably one

of the most difficult times.

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Yeah.

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, to be a, a small shop owner, but, , I

have been really like leaning back

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into, I'm trying to weather this moment

by leaning back into the foundational

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things that I love about having a shop.

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So I'm in my shop more right now than

I would've been maybe seven years ago.

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Okay.

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, when I had like the most employees

and everyone had, you know, their own

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specialty and everything was delegated and

I'm overseeing and I'm coming in and, you

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know, , now I'm really there a lot more.

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, and, , I'm trying to enjoy little

things like walking in, in the

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morning and taking my time.

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Lighting the incense and walking around

slowly and looking at the space and

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thinking about it, and really just

trying to enjoy being in, in the space.

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Yeah.

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, because I think when things are hard and,

, you know, when you're a small business

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owner and you're constantly thinking

about it all the time and your brain

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doesn't turn off it, it can be easy to

just overlook those like little things.

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So I'm, I'm trying really hard to

like, live in my body in the space.

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Yeah.

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That's great.

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, some days are easier than others.

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Sure.

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, but , yeah, I do, I do still love it.

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, there's been a million times

where I've tried to do thought

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experiments about should I quit?

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Should I stop doing this?

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Should I close the store?

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Should I do something else?

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Yeah.

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And I just keep doing it.

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Yeah.

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I just keep showing up to do it.

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And I, I think I.

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It has to be from the, coming

from this place of like just

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really loving it, you know?

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Yeah.

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Well it's too non-linear to, uh,

commit to if you don't love it.

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Yeah.

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I think that's like an imperative

ingredient and unpredictable.

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Must be.

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Yes.

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Um, so you, when you bought the business

Uhhuh, they were still on North Highland?

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Yes.

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And then you've moved twice.

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Yes.

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Is there a story there, Uhhuh?

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Is it a story you can share?

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Yes.

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Okay.

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Uh, you, I can give the

second location light version.

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Okay.

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, so like cosmic joke of cosmic jokes,

, we signed a lease to move, so we, we

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were on, well, okay, let me back up.

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We were on North Highland, , and in 20.

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18 ish.

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So I was there from 2012 to 2018.

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So I was there about six years.

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Okay.

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About 2018.

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I started kind of feeling

like, I think that we are

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plateaued here in this location.

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I feel like I'm trying really hard

to push it and, and grow, and it's

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just starting to feel like we're on a

plateau and I, I'm not sure how to shake

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out of this and go to the next rung.

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I, I don't kind of have an online shop,

but it's not really growing quickly and

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yeah, I don't really know that much about

like SEO or all of these things that,

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, don't come naturally and that like cost a

lot of money to pay an expert, rightfully

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so, but like money that I don't have.

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Sure.

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, and so I thought well, maybe if we

move to a different neighborhood.

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Have a bigger store, , incorporate

other, like, new services.

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Like at that point in time we had

incorporated floral design into the shop.

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Cool.

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We can have events, we

can do all these things.

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So, , in the beginning of 20.

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19.

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I toured the space at the Atlanta

Dairies for the first time.

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Okay.

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And we negotiated on that

space for about a year.

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And then the cosmic joke is that

we signed the lease on that space

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in, , on February 20th, 2020.

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Fuck

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yes.

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That was the exact same time period.

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I was doing an almost

six figure remodel here.

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Uhhuh, uh, obviously cool.

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Without the plan of being

closed for three months.

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Mm-hmm.

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Okay.

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I feel you on that.

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Yes, yes.

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And at that point in time, you

know, the world was pre pandemic.

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, all of the grand plans that we had been.

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Sold and described about that development

and all the grand plans that we

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had in our mind for the business.

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No inkling that those things

would not be true and possible.

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Yeah.

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, was this real quick?

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Uh, was this Pace's properties Okay.

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Continue?

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Yes.

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, and so then the pandemic happened

and construction was paused.

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, at the same time, the, , owner of the

Highland Row who had been our landlord

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forever was trying to sell that.

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Yeah, I've heard some

stories about that as well.

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And so that whole thing was

happening and , if I'm honest, by

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the time it finally came time to.

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Move forward with moving.

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I, I really didn't want to anymore.

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Yeah.

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But you're committed.

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We had signed a lease

shit with a corporation.

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Yep.

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Not a person.

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They used to be my landlords too, here.

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Mm-hmm.

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, so that's why I wanted to clarify.

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Mm-hmm.

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And if that was the same Yes.

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Situation.

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Okay.

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, and,

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but you know, you know, you're, you're

thinking like, if I wanna try to get out

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of this now, I'm fighting now, or maybe

I'm fighting later, I don't really know.

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I'm not sure.

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And I sort of just felt like

this was something I chose to do.

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I am going to.

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Honor this contract that I signed and move

forward with everything I have, try to

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make this space as good as I can make it.

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And still, among all of this uncertainty

about what's going on in the world,

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what's gonna happen, what's the

future of retail, what's the future

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of in-person experience, all of that.

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Yeah.

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I'm just gonna do it and

just see what happens.

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Yeah.

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, and so I did,

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uh, and pretty much immediately

knew that I had to figure out

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how to get out of it really.

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, yeah.

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So, . The development was at that point in

time in a state of partial construction.

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Right?

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It was perpetually under construction

actually the entire time we were

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there until the day we left.

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Mm-hmm.

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, we didn't know at the time, and when

I say me, I mean us and also all the

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other businesses that were there.

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, we didn't know that it was going to

remain that way because the property

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was being shopped around for sale.

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And so, do you know why?

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I don't know actually.

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Okay.

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Let me just spill a little tea here.

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Pace's properties it was two

brothers that started that, , group

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and they had a falling out.

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Okay?

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And one brother absorbed X number

of properties and the other brother,

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brother absorbed y number of properties.

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Okay?

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I don't know if you and I were under

the same brother, but I know the

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brother that absorbed my property,

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Uhhuh, was charged and held liable

with felony embezzlement because

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he was defrauding his investors.

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And so part of that.

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While I was at dairies,

this was happening.

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Oh yeah.

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Shit.

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Yes.

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So he had to, um, like divest and

essentially I think one of his main

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investors took over the properties

and he had to give it all up.

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But I, . This makes a lot of sense.

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Yes.

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So there was a behind the scenes

like major lawsuit going on and

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Okay, this is all public information.

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Okay.

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And I don't like this guy.

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He's an asshole.

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Yeah.

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So I don't mind talking shit

about him on this podcast.

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Yeah.

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,, but he, , on his ledger, , someone I know

saw this in the court documents, like it

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showed this tenant's paying this much and

he had me down as paying like $5 a square

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foot, as you know, is not a real number.

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Right.

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You're like actually paid

$5,000 a square foot.

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Literally that like, so just

completely lying about Wow.

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And then I, I don't, this

is me just speculating.

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I think he maybe was just like

pocketing the difference and

448

:

like telling the investors Whoa.

449

:

Yes.

450

:

Interesting.

451

:

So that is the drama Okay.

452

:

Of that development and

he had to get rid of this.

453

:

Yeah.

454

:

It's a whole.

455

:

Whole thing.

456

:

That makes a lot of sense.

457

:

Because for us, we had a lot

of contact with him and a lot

458

:

of conversations with him.

459

:

Prior to moving in, , and

once we all moved in, I just.

460

:

Like never saw him again.

461

:

That totally does.

462

:

And like never talked to him again.

463

:

Yeah.

464

:

And was sounding the alarm with

the property management company.

465

:

Something is wrong here.

466

:

Yes.

467

:

In this development and here's

the list of what they are.

468

:

Um, yeah.

469

:

You know, we had like a business

owners, , group of all the people who

470

:

had shops and restaurants and stuff there

who would get together every month and

471

:

have meetings with, , each other about

the things that were wrong, that were

472

:

hurting our businesses by being there.

473

:

And would, , put in requests with

property management and ownership

474

:

for these things to change.

475

:

And I'm talking like.

476

:

Basic things, like there is no signage,

there is no wayfaring anywhere.

477

:

When you pull into the parking

garage, there's no map or directory

478

:

or list of businesses when you

walk out of the parking garage

479

:

and you go into the development.

480

:

There's no signs that say retail

this way or NN nothing at all.

481

:

That indicates there's any reason anyone

should walk in any direction at all.

482

:

Really.

483

:

Yeah.

484

:

, the whole entire front of the building,

which is where our shop was located,

485

:

on the front, there was no lighting.

486

:

Oh my God.

487

:

So in the, , fall and winter months, , by

5:00 PM it looked like we were closed.

488

:

Yeah.

489

:

And I would be sitting at the register or

at my desk and I would hear, I could hear

490

:

people walking by on the sidewalk saying.

491

:

One person would say, what's that?

492

:

And the next person would

say, oh, I don't know.

493

:

That looks closed.

494

:

It's like a warehouse

or something, you know?

495

:

And I would hear this happening Damn.

496

:

All the time.

497

:

Yeah.

498

:

That's so frustrating.

499

:

Yes, very frustrating.

500

:

, 'cause it was so just dark.

501

:

There was no signage.

502

:

There was, I mean, it

was just, it was awful.

503

:

Yeah.

504

:

, and also was still very much an act,

active quote unquote construction

505

:

zone that was just, I remember this

perpetually not going anywhere.

506

:

Yeah.

507

:

, and you know, we had had like a little

bit of a, of a runway on our rent

508

:

where I think it was like six months

or something, if I'm remembering

509

:

correctly, where we were just paying Cam

plus a percentage of our rent as rent.

510

:

Okay.

511

:

That's great.

512

:

And as we started approaching

the end date mm-hmm.

513

:

For that,

514

:

. I, I mean, I knew we would never be able

to pay what, what they wanted, you know?

515

:

Yeah.

516

:

So I started requesting meetings

and requesting conversations and

517

:

requesting to, you know, I'm sending

them all my sales reports, they know

518

:

what our sales are, and, you know, the

rent was already wildly outrageous.

519

:

Yes.

520

:

Maybe on another timeline where

covid didn't happen, those numbers

521

:

could have actually worked.

522

:

Mm-hmm.

523

:

, but their expectation was

never recalibrated for the

524

:

new reality, , that tracks.

525

:

Yeah.

526

:

So I started, you know, sounding the

alarm, trying to just get ahead of

527

:

it and no one would ever talk to me.

528

:

That also helps.

529

:

, yeah.

530

:

Or anyone else, not just me and any

of the other business owners as well.

531

:

We all had the same, basically

the same experience there.

532

:

Yeah.

533

:

And all, we all ended up.

534

:

Leaving that development within the same,

you know, four to six month time period.

535

:

Mm-hmm.

536

:

That says a lot.

537

:

So, uh, there's like a giant issue, I

think this is probably nationwide, but

538

:

you get these big corporate developers

making these, uh, you know, cute

539

:

in town, renovated warehouse, mixed

use communities, and they're like,

540

:

we love local and small businesses.

541

:

As long as you can afford the same

price per square foot, that like

542

:

a target or a corporation can.

543

:

Yeah.

544

:

And then once that paperwork is

signed, they're just like, Hmm.

545

:

I don't remember that conversation we

had about being like partners in any way.

546

:

Yeah.

547

:

And like supporting our tenants.

548

:

Well, and an even more sort of bleak

pattern that I've noticed is not

549

:

only are they, to me, it looks like.

550

:

They want the local businesses

to prove the concept for them.

551

:

Mm-hmm.

552

:

And then get rid of them.

553

:

That's so interesting.

554

:

That's what it looks like to me.

555

:

Yeah.

556

:

Like make this look cool and relevant

and local and then we kind of already

557

:

know that it's not gonna be quite like

there for you, but you are gonna go

558

:

ahead and like prove this concept for us.

559

:

And then when you can't actually

afford to pay the same amount as

560

:

Target can, we'll just like get

Target instead, you know, or whatever.

561

:

Or West Elm or whatever,

you know, whatever.

562

:

Insert corporate, you know, retail here.

563

:

Yeah.

564

:

, I, I think.

565

:

There's something there with that.

566

:

I think you're, is nasty.

567

:

It is nasty.

568

:

I think you're a hundred percent correct.

569

:

And I had an experience, I don't

know if you ever fished around

570

:

at moving to PO City Market.

571

:

I have a very funny

story about, about that.

572

:

Oh, really?

573

:

Well, I have a quick one and it that

I almost moved to pomp city market.

574

:

Yeah.

575

:

Yeah.

576

:

And uh, like man, they're real good

at like wheeling and dealing Yes.

577

:

And selling you on something.

578

:

And then, uh.

579

:

In hindsight, I'm unbelievably

glad that I didn't.

580

:

But you watch the small businesses

just kind of like disappear from

581

:

font and, , you know, there's

Glad and Young, which is amazing.

582

:

Mm-hmm.

583

:

Like they're my favorite actual

small business that's out there.

584

:

They're so sweet.

585

:

They're such kind women too.

586

:

They're the best.

587

:

, and they were like very

like, candid with me.

588

:

Like I had some chats with them

when I was looking at space there.

589

:

, but they totally do that.

590

:

Like they talk the talk for

being pro small business.

591

:

Yes.

592

:

And then at the end of the

day, yeah, they aren't.

593

:

Yeah.

594

:

Yeah.

595

:

What's their story?

596

:

My experience with them was

really interesting in that we

597

:

were on North Highland then.

598

:

Yeah.

599

:

When it was built.

600

:

And I was very conscious at that point

already that in my mind I called it,

601

:

I, I always called it a black hole.

602

:

I was like, everything

around this is going to get.

603

:

Stuck in the gravitational

rotation of this thing is analogy

604

:

kind how I thought about it.

605

:

Yeah.

606

:

, and so at first I was like, should

I just dive into the center Right.

607

:

Or what should I do?

608

:

You know?

609

:

, and so I reached out and asked

them for their leasing packet.

610

:

Mm-hmm.

611

:

And this was like a few years into me

taking over the shop and everything

612

:

was, this was like probably around

what, what, 20 14, 20 15 probably ish.

613

:

Okay.

614

:

Really?

615

:

Um, yeah.

616

:

And, , we were like humming along,

like things were going good and I was

617

:

like, yeah, maybe we can go over there

and just, you know, dive right in.

618

:

Yeah.

619

:

And so I requested their leasing packet

and I was reviewing it and at the same

620

:

time, someone from their leasing office

reached back out to me and basically said.

621

:

Well, if you want to come here

or like come have a meeting, we

622

:

really just need you to, , I guess

create like a presentation about why

623

:

you would be a good fit here and.

624

:

Almost simultaneously that this person is

telling me this, I'm flipping through the

625

:

leasing packet and my business is in it.

626

:

What?

627

:

And I was like, why is my

business in your leasing packet?

628

:

Like, but you're asking me to tell

you why I would be a good fit.

629

:

, basically there was a, a, a several

pages that were about who the ideal

630

:

customer of Pont City Market was.

631

:

And there was one per, they, they had

created these like fictional people,

632

:

like, you know, this fake Christ Rebecca.

633

:

They were like, Christie,

27, she, this is her job.

634

:

This is what she likes

to do on the weekends.

635

:

You know, they created these like faux

shoppers or whatever, their archetype.

636

:

Yeah, yeah.

637

:

And then they had put like the

shops in the area or businesses

638

:

in the area that these.

639

:

Customers, , shop at.

640

:

Mm-hmm.

641

:

And my store was there, like listed

as one of them, and I, I just like

642

:

paused for a second and I was like,

okay, so my business is in your

643

:

packet, but you want me to prove

why I should be in your development?

644

:

And also, by the way, this person

who's talking to me doesn't even

645

:

realize that they're talking to someone

whose business is in this packet.

646

:

Yeah.

647

:

So it just felt messy.

648

:

Mm-hmm.

649

:

And weird.

650

:

And I just got a.

651

:

Bad vibe from it.

652

:

It's a huge red flag.

653

:

Yeah.

654

:

And so I was like, I just actually

never talked to them again.

655

:

Yeah, that's the best.

656

:

Just didn't talk to them again.

657

:

Yeah.

658

:

I think you learned

everything you, you mentioned.

659

:

Yeah.

660

:

It was really weird.

661

:

Yeah.

662

:

That's unhinged.

663

:

Yeah.

664

:

It was strange.

665

:

I, there's this new thing and like,

obviously you and I don't have corporate

666

:

jobs, , but I have clients and maybe

you have customers and friends where

667

:

it's ex maybe not expected, but there,

it's like not uncommon these days with

668

:

job interviews for people to go through

like eight rounds where you have to

669

:

like, make a PowerPoint presentation.

670

:

I can't.

671

:

I can't.

672

:

And like, do work for a job that you

don't have, like I don't get that.

673

:

I don't either.

674

:

Like, I'm not doing unpaid labor for you.

675

:

Right.

676

:

And you're like, thanks

for that little show.

677

:

Like, but we're gonna

go with someone else.

678

:

Right.

679

:

Like, what?

680

:

Yeah.

681

:

Yeah.

682

:

I, yeah.

683

:

I have so much, respect, obviously.

684

:

But also my husband works a corporate

job, so like, but I've always known

685

:

since I was young, like, oof, woof.

686

:

Like, yeah, if I can help, I mean, I'll do

anything I need to do to survive, right?

687

:

Sure.

688

:

But if I can help it, not me.

689

:

Yeah, I can't, I can't do it.

690

:

I, my mouth is way too big to work a

corporate job, and I'm too, like I.

691

:

I am really into efficiency and the

minute I would, I would see a system

692

:

that doesn't make sense to me, but

why are we doing this this way?

693

:

Doesn't make any sense.

694

:

Yeah, same like, I'm not,

I'm not a good employee.

695

:

I think that's how you end up taking over

a store that is somebody else else's.

696

:

I think that's exactly it.

697

:

You're like, I can do this.

698

:

Just step aside, I.

699

:

Literally got this.

700

:

Yeah.

701

:

Yeah.

702

:

I'm like, yeah, I, I couldn't do it.

703

:

Wish like a minute.

704

:

Which like, in some respects, like haha

jokes on you, you know, because everyone

705

:

always says, you know, if you, what's

the, what's that phrase that's like, you

706

:

know, small business owners will work

like, you know, 24 hours a day to avoid

707

:

working 40 hours a week or whatever.

708

:

Yes.

709

:

Yeah.

710

:

But we're in charge of those 24 hours.

711

:

Exactly.

712

:

And they fit well with my,

like, sporadic energy levels

713

:

to, that's exactly it, you know?

714

:

Yeah.

715

:

I think that's important.

716

:

Yeah.

717

:

, is there anything you've discovered

about yourself in this past 12 years

718

:

of business ownership that you're

like, oh, I wouldn't have tapped into

719

:

that if I hadn't been in this dynamic?

720

:

I, I, I'll say one thing that I've shown

myself a lot through a lot of different.

721

:

Problems and solves is that

I'm pretty fucking resilient.

722

:

That's such a good aha.

723

:

I am like, I'm like a little

cockroach or something, you know,

724

:

like I just, I do feel that way.

725

:

And, and not to say that I am naive

to the ways in which like, you can

726

:

be taken out or you can have to

shut down or things can go badly.

727

:

Sure.

728

:

, 'cause I've survived some of

those inexplicably already.

729

:

Yeah.

730

:

Um, where it felt like I

was teetering on the edge.

731

:

Okay.

732

:

, specifically when I was trying

to get out of dairies, you know?

733

:

Yeah.

734

:

I mean, it was like, it, it was

like I was, in hell and I was like

735

:

trying to figure out how to get

the devil to let me go or whatever.

736

:

Not to be like, you know, I

don't believe in the devil, but

737

:

you know, you know what I mean?

738

:

The metaphorical devil.

739

:

No.

740

:

But there, there's those intense like

breaking points where you're just like.

741

:

This is heavy.

742

:

Yeah.

743

:

Real heavy.

744

:

How did I get here?

745

:

Okay.

746

:

Am I gonna be okay?

747

:

, yeah.

748

:

Just, I, I do feel like, damn girl,

you are like a resilient person.

749

:

That's awesome.

750

:

You know?

751

:

Which makes me feel good.

752

:

Yes.

753

:

Good.

754

:

Makes me feel like I can handle a lot.

755

:

Yeah.

756

:

Which is good and bad because I think,

because I know I can handle a lot.

757

:

Sometimes I put myself in situations

where I have to handle a lot.

758

:

Right.

759

:

And I could have, because I can

created a softer space for myself.

760

:

That makes a lot of sense.

761

:

, I had a recent situation where I, uh,

I'll avoid the details in case lawyers

762

:

need to be involved at some point.

763

:

Mm-hmm.

764

:

, but uh, the situation came up and I was

like, oh, like I vividly know, like.

765

:

Erica three or four years ago

even would be crying and just

766

:

like stressed out about this.

767

:

Yeah.

768

:

And I was calm, like I knew exactly

how I was gonna handle it, and

769

:

I just had this trust that like

this one way or another, yeah.

770

:

This is gonna work out.

771

:

Yeah.

772

:

And it's gonna be fine, but you

can't get there without going

773

:

through the experiences that

kind of like build that muscle.

774

:

Yeah.

775

:

Um, there's no way to fake that.

776

:

Mm-hmm.

777

:

So, okay, let me circle back to dairies.

778

:

Yeah.

779

:

So bad fit.

780

:

Um, bad fit.

781

:

Yeah.

782

:

How did you actually

get out of that least?

783

:

So, one, one of the things that I'm the

most grateful to past Rebecca for probably

784

:

out of top five in my whole life, things

that I'm grateful to past Rebecca for.

785

:

Mm-hmm.

786

:

, I, during the negotiation phase of

going into the space, , of course

787

:

like they present you with all of

these papers you've gotta read through

788

:

like a 700 page, document, you know?

789

:

Yeah.

790

:

From the beginning, I was

adamant that I would not sign a

791

:

personal guarantee on this lease.

792

:

Oh, good.

793

:

Okay.

794

:

, and it's obviously something that's

pretty standard in commercial leases.

795

:

Almost every single person

wants you to sign it.

796

:

Yeah.

797

:

, I'm surprised they were okay with that.

798

:

I felt very con convicted that I would

not, and even ended up having a phone

799

:

conversation about it where I said to

them, , if this all doesn't work out

800

:

and , I have to close my business,

my family's home, , means way more

801

:

to me than it would ever mean to

you, and I will not give it to you.

802

:

Fuck.

803

:

You know?

804

:

Yes.

805

:

Like, I'm not That's right.

806

:

I was just like, absolutely not.

807

:

Yeah.

808

:

, and so I was like, you know, I will walk

away, essentially, I'll walk away from

809

:

this lease if you don't find a compromise.

810

:

Yeah.

811

:

And so their compromise was you can sign

or you can pay a double security deposit.

812

:

Perfect.

813

:

Which I did.

814

:

, did you get your security deposit back?

815

:

Oh, absolutely not.

816

:

Okay.

817

:

, absolutely not.

818

:

, so that money was long gone.

819

:

Fast forward.

820

:

, I'm trying to get out of this lease now.

821

:

Yeah.

822

:

But now I'm working with the people

who have bought the property mm-hmm.

823

:

Who don't really know anything

about the past, who don't care

824

:

about me, who I've never met.

825

:

I don't even know their names.

826

:

I actually don't even know who owns it.

827

:

Yeah.

828

:

Like, it's just like a,

you know, phantom person.

829

:

There's not a lot of clarity afterwards.

830

:

Yeah.

831

:

Or communications.

832

:

Yeah.

833

:

Yeah.

834

:

And so, . Started negotiating with them.

835

:

Oh, oh, let me back up and say this.

836

:

This was like, I can't, I

still can't believe I did this.

837

:

'cause I've never done

anything like this before.

838

:

But basically, I, I told you that I

had, , started trying to sound the alarm

839

:

and tell them like, this is going badly.

840

:

And so was everyone else.

841

:

Like, we were all like,

help, like we're drowning.

842

:

Yeah.

843

:

Like we need to talk about this.

844

:

No one would talk to us.

845

:

So when our runway, , dried up and

it was time to pay full rent and we

846

:

couldn't, , we tried for, , a couple

months, , and I was just emailing

847

:

them all the time, calling like,

please someone just talk to me.

848

:

No one would talk to me at all.

849

:

No one would respond to me or

any of the other business owners.

850

:

Like, they just ignored us all basically.

851

:

, and so I was like, well.

852

:

Maybe if I stop giving them money Yeah.

853

:

They'll talk to me.

854

:

Fair.

855

:

And so I did that.

856

:

I just like stopped giving them money

for a couple months just 'cause I

857

:

was like, I, which was terrifying.

858

:

I was like, this isn't, yeah.

859

:

But I was desperate.

860

:

I could not get them to even speak to me.

861

:

Yeah.

862

:

That was, that was the leverage you had.

863

:

Yeah.

864

:

I was like, this is like, they're

gonna have to talk to me, you know?

865

:

Yeah.

866

:

, and so, , they did talk to me by

just having their lawyer contact me.

867

:

, and That's so rude.

868

:

Yes, it was rude.

869

:

But, but also, fine.

870

:

I was like, you know what,

this is what was coming.

871

:

Talking to this attorney is the only,

we were always gonna have to walk

872

:

through this door to get out of here.

873

:

Sure.

874

:

You know that all roads are

leading to attorneys right now.

875

:

Yeah.

876

:

So let's do this.

877

:

, and it was Christmas time, which

I was just like, how dare you?

878

:

You know, like I was, I was like, this

is the best time of year for shops.

879

:

I'm also trying to like, just

personally enjoy the holidays.

880

:

Right.

881

:

Which was like a no no.

882

:

, and, so anyway, I, the

attorney, emailed me.

883

:

And I remember like that very moment

with such clarity that I opened my inbox

884

:

and had that email from the attorney.

885

:

I knew it was coming, I

just didn't know when.

886

:

And of course then my stomach

was like in my throat.

887

:

And , anyway, , it was actually

fairly anti-climatic in the end.

888

:

We negotiated back and forth on

basically just a price to let us out.

889

:

Okay.

890

:

, so that's how we ended up.

891

:

We had to pay them to get out.

892

:

So what happened was that

they kept the double security

893

:

deposit that we had paid Uhhuh.

894

:

Um, and then, essentially since that

was Christmas time, obviously that's

895

:

the busiest, most lucrative time.

896

:

It's usually the time of year

that people make money to help.

897

:

Sustain their business through the

slow months of the beginning of

898

:

the year and through the summer.

899

:

Yeah.

900

:

But for us, we had to, , write a check

for basically every penny that we had

901

:

in our bank account and give it to

a corporation that we had never met

902

:

or didn't even know who they were in

order to get out of this lease that

903

:

still had another few years left on it.

904

:

Yeah.

905

:

Um, but then you need capital to go move.

906

:

Yes.

907

:

Okay.

908

:

Keep going.

909

:

So, so, , we started over.

910

:

Wow.

911

:

After 10 years in business,

we started over from nothing.

912

:

Jesus Christ.

913

:

, it was crazy.

914

:

And this is why I say like.

915

:

Like, like I just keep doing this.

916

:

So like, there Yeah.

917

:

Like that, that was a very natural point

at which I think most sane people probably

918

:

would've been like, I'm good on this.

919

:

Yeah.

920

:

I'm gonna not do this anymore.

921

:

This thoroughly.

922

:

Yeah, exactly.

923

:

Yeah.

924

:

, but I felt indignant about

allowing a faceless corporation

925

:

to destroy my business.

926

:

Yes.

927

:

Good.

928

:

Even though the odds were

very much not in my favor.

929

:

Yeah.

930

:

, and so we had a really big moving sale,

, and ended up actually like selling

931

:

through maybe 90% of our inventory

that we had in the store at that time.

932

:

And that gave us enough money to get out

of there and be closed for a couple of

933

:

months to rebuild the shop in our new

location and start over from nothing.

934

:

Oh my gosh.

935

:

I'm so funny.

936

:

Ask you about this because it was crazy.

937

:

You would never know of the behind the

scenes based on your Instagram post.

938

:

I know, obviously.

939

:

Well, I've tried so many times to

think about because anyone who's

940

:

asked me about this story, who I've

told this story is like, oh my God.

941

:

Like, you have to tell people about this.

942

:

Yeah.

943

:

People need to know about this.

944

:

You know, and I, I've thought

about so many times how to do that

945

:

in a way that doesn't feel, um.

946

:

That was two years ago, you know?

947

:

Yeah.

948

:

And it felt like too much time has passed.

949

:

And so actually I'm very grateful

that this came up right now because

950

:

Me too, I think people are very

curious about what happened.

951

:

, and you know, when people are in the

shop and they ask me questions about

952

:

it in person, it's, it's awkward to

like try to tell this whole story.

953

:

Yeah.

954

:

While I'm also being like, can I

interested you in this tomato candle?

955

:

Um, oh my God, you just bought

the Trader Joe's tomato candle.

956

:

Do, villa do.

957

:

Oh, nice.

958

:

Yesterday.

959

:

It's so funny you mentioned that.

960

:

Love a tomato.

961

:

I, me too.

962

:

We just got some fancy tomato candles

in and I'm just like over in there

963

:

like huffing them all the time.

964

:

Ugh.

965

:

I have to come smell them.

966

:

Um, yeah.

967

:

So yeah, so that's, these are the stories

though that I think it's very easy to

968

:

not share or to not share on a big.

969

:

Skile, but this is the stuff people

need to know about and this is the

970

:

stuff people are curious about.

971

:

Yeah.

972

:

And it's just the reality of

being a small business owner.

973

:

Totally.

974

:

And especially, I don't know what

your financial background is, but

975

:

I like, I don't have investors,

I don't have a trust fund.

976

:

Like I, every single dollar that

comes and goes from here, I touch.

977

:

Yeah.

978

:

And it's really, really scary.

979

:

It is, yeah.

980

:

And there's certain big numbers

that in various times get thrown out

981

:

that for somebody like me feel huge,

but for them it's fucking nothing.

982

:

It's nothing.

983

:

Exactly.

984

:

And they treat you.

985

:

It, it's rough.

986

:

I, I really have a hard time with that.

987

:

It's, and I'm super unhappy with

my landlord here now, so it's

988

:

like this topic is very Yeah.

989

:

Of the time.

990

:

Yeah.

991

:

, are you happy with your new

landlord in your new adorable space?

992

:

Yes.

993

:

I love our new space.

994

:

, I love Candler Park.

995

:

It's a very active community.

996

:

Yeah.

997

:

There's a lot of people walking around.

998

:

Even like, we have more foot

traffic coming past our shop than

999

:

we did even on North Highland.

:

00:40:39,870 --> 00:40:40,380

That's awesome.

:

00:40:40,410 --> 00:40:42,030

, which is really cool.

:

00:40:42,030 --> 00:40:42,090

Yeah.

:

00:40:42,140 --> 00:40:45,440

, the immediate neighborhood in

Candle Park is so supportive, so

:

00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:48,200

sweet, so happy that we're there.

:

00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:51,040

, and it's kind of been interesting.

:

00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:52,150

It's felt like.

:

00:40:52,150 --> 00:40:54,580

Almost like a return to the beginning.

:

00:40:54,610 --> 00:40:54,670

Yeah.

:

00:40:54,670 --> 00:40:58,270

Which, I mean obviously, like I just

said, financially it very much has been,

:

00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:05,150

but energetically too, because we're in

this new neighborhood that is, , smaller

:

00:41:05,150 --> 00:41:09,770

and closer knit, sort of like Poncy

Highlands and there's a lot of that area.

:

00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:10,460

Yeah.

:

00:41:10,460 --> 00:41:14,800

And , you know, people are coming in

and being like, what's this place?

:

00:41:14,890 --> 00:41:14,980

Mm-hmm.

:

00:41:15,370 --> 00:41:18,280

And I find myself explaining.

:

00:41:19,135 --> 00:41:24,655

What like independent craft and design

is again, which is like something that

:

00:41:24,655 --> 00:41:26,695

I didn't have to do for a long time.

:

00:41:26,695 --> 00:41:26,755

Yeah.

:

00:41:26,785 --> 00:41:28,765

Um, and so that's been really fun.

:

00:41:29,095 --> 00:41:29,245

Yeah.

:

00:41:29,245 --> 00:41:30,055

And cool.

:

00:41:30,145 --> 00:41:32,785

, and yeah, I really like it over there.

:

00:41:32,845 --> 00:41:33,175

That's great.

:

00:41:33,175 --> 00:41:37,885

I hope that we, you know, it's, it's

a weird time for all of retail, but

:

00:41:37,885 --> 00:41:41,845

I hope that when we get through

whatever it is that's happening

:

00:41:41,965 --> 00:41:44,155

for all of us right now mm-hmm.

:

00:41:44,156 --> 00:41:48,645

That, , we can really be like, settled

in and thriving in that neighborhood.

:

00:41:48,675 --> 00:41:48,735

Yeah.

:

00:41:48,825 --> 00:41:49,755

I think we can.

:

00:41:49,995 --> 00:41:50,085

Yeah.

:

00:41:50,085 --> 00:41:52,905

You know, I don't think I have it in

me to like move anywhere else again.

:

00:41:53,175 --> 00:41:53,955

You're like, this is it.

:

00:41:54,945 --> 00:41:56,775

So I'm like, this is where we live now.

:

00:41:56,805 --> 00:41:57,075

Yeah.

:

00:41:57,075 --> 00:41:58,485

Or we don't live anymore.

:

00:41:58,485 --> 00:41:59,650

You know, I think that's fair.

:

00:41:59,655 --> 00:42:03,315

I say that and then who

knows what I, I, you know, I.

:

00:42:03,795 --> 00:42:07,515

For some reason I just,

I can't give her up.

:

00:42:07,695 --> 00:42:07,875

Yeah.

:

00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:09,405

You know, I just, it's your baby.

:

00:42:09,405 --> 00:42:09,915

Yeah.

:

00:42:09,915 --> 00:42:11,715

I can't give her up, but that makes sense.

:

00:42:12,225 --> 00:42:12,615

Yeah.

:

00:42:12,795 --> 00:42:16,905

So have you, you mentioned earlier

that you had like dabbled in online,

:

00:42:16,905 --> 00:42:18,315

but you hadn't like, needed to that.

:

00:42:18,495 --> 00:42:18,585

Yes.

:

00:42:18,675 --> 00:42:21,075

, since then, have you increased

your online thing or you

:

00:42:21,075 --> 00:42:22,995

still predominantly in person?

:

00:42:23,025 --> 00:42:27,735

When we were over in the dairies,

we actually had gotten, I mean, as

:

00:42:27,735 --> 00:42:33,825

you know, making an online store is

just like a whole other business.

:

00:42:33,855 --> 00:42:33,915

Yeah.

:

00:42:34,125 --> 00:42:39,285

With as much work and effort and

labor as the brick and mortar

:

00:42:39,285 --> 00:42:41,825

part and, , it just takes forever.

:

00:42:41,825 --> 00:42:44,435

It takes so much longer than I

think most people think just,

:

00:42:44,465 --> 00:42:45,875

oh, just make an online store.

:

00:42:45,875 --> 00:42:47,255

Like, it's like nothing, you know?

:

00:42:47,435 --> 00:42:47,495

Yeah.

:

00:42:47,625 --> 00:42:50,175

, you can either spend a ton

of money or a ton of time.

:

00:42:50,205 --> 00:42:50,865

Exactly.

:

00:42:50,865 --> 00:42:52,575

And I'm always doing the last one.

:

00:42:52,695 --> 00:42:52,785

Yeah.

:

00:42:52,795 --> 00:42:53,485

, and.

:

00:42:53,885 --> 00:42:57,965

, at dairies, I had finally gotten

the online store to where it was

:

00:42:57,965 --> 00:42:59,645

a one, one-to-one experience.

:

00:42:59,645 --> 00:42:59,675

Okay.

:

00:42:59,675 --> 00:43:02,225

Everything that was in

the store was online.

:

00:43:02,285 --> 00:43:02,645

Great.

:

00:43:03,275 --> 00:43:06,695

But, and it had started like picking

up and things were going great.

:

00:43:06,755 --> 00:43:06,875

Yeah.

:

00:43:06,875 --> 00:43:09,725

We were starting to see a big

increase in online sales and like

:

00:43:09,725 --> 00:43:11,825

that part was starting to, to grow.

:

00:43:11,885 --> 00:43:12,305

Yeah.

:

00:43:12,365 --> 00:43:16,955

But when we sold all of our inventory

to move, we basically emptied our

:

00:43:16,955 --> 00:43:18,575

whole website down to nothing.

:

00:43:18,635 --> 00:43:18,905

Yeah.

:

00:43:18,935 --> 00:43:21,725

And then we kind of started over

with like different vendors.

:

00:43:21,725 --> 00:43:24,155

Some the same, but some different ones.

:

00:43:24,155 --> 00:43:30,040

And, , so anyway, over the past couple

of years I've been slowly chipping away

:

00:43:30,435 --> 00:43:33,825

at getting an online store back again.

:

00:43:33,825 --> 00:43:34,185

Yeah.

:

00:43:34,405 --> 00:43:40,075

, but it's been hard to do it all again

for the second or third time or whatever.

:

00:43:40,125 --> 00:43:44,595

. , and it's just me doing like,

you know, like everything.

:

00:43:44,805 --> 00:43:45,045

Yes.

:

00:43:46,005 --> 00:43:48,035

And so, . Yeah, it's slow going.

:

00:43:48,035 --> 00:43:48,815

It's getting better.

:

00:43:48,815 --> 00:43:55,475

I would say our online shop is,

uh, maybe like 60 or 70% of what

:

00:43:55,475 --> 00:43:56,675

we have in the stores online.

:

00:43:56,825 --> 00:43:56,855

Okay.

:

00:43:56,855 --> 00:43:57,545

Maybe 60.

:

00:43:57,575 --> 00:43:58,775

Maybe 60, not 70.

:

00:43:58,895 --> 00:43:59,135

Yeah.

:

00:43:59,165 --> 00:44:00,575

But I'm working on it bit by bit.

:

00:44:00,575 --> 00:44:00,635

Yeah.

:

00:44:00,665 --> 00:44:04,265

Every week I like am getting more and

more and more things online, so I do

:

00:44:04,265 --> 00:44:08,105

want to have the online store be back

to a more like one-on-one experience.

:

00:44:08,105 --> 00:44:12,755

But, , I dunno, sometimes

I'm always like, but for why?

:

00:44:13,055 --> 00:44:15,815

Like, because even then once

you put it up, you're like,

:

00:44:15,815 --> 00:44:17,765

okay, come buy these things now.

:

00:44:17,885 --> 00:44:18,065

Yes.

:

00:44:18,065 --> 00:44:22,925

And then sometimes they do, but a

lot of times they don't, you know,

:

00:44:22,925 --> 00:44:26,255

so you're like, how do I get the

people here to this online store?

:

00:44:26,375 --> 00:44:29,285

It is, uh, it is like a whole new beast.

:

00:44:29,315 --> 00:44:29,405

Yeah.

:

00:44:29,405 --> 00:44:30,305

It's really interesting.

:

00:44:30,335 --> 00:44:30,755

Yes.

:

00:44:30,935 --> 00:44:36,025

, we had last spring, a moment

of going viral, which.

:

00:44:36,370 --> 00:44:37,270

Have you ever had a postcode?

:

00:44:37,270 --> 00:44:37,930

Super viral?

:

00:44:37,930 --> 00:44:38,650

No.

:

00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:39,100

Okay.

:

00:44:39,100 --> 00:44:39,430

No.

:

00:44:39,430 --> 00:44:40,900

I'm so bad at Instagram.

:

00:44:40,900 --> 00:44:40,990

Oh my.

:

00:44:40,990 --> 00:44:42,220

Which I know is crazy.

:

00:44:42,220 --> 00:44:43,390

I'm so bad at it.

:

00:44:43,390 --> 00:44:47,080

It's like something that I'm always

like, you have to do better at this.

:

00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:53,890

And I just, I, I don't have the,

the will within me to do better.

:

00:44:53,890 --> 00:44:54,070

Yeah.

:

00:44:54,070 --> 00:44:56,560

Even though I know I have to.

:

00:44:56,565 --> 00:44:56,605

Yes.

:

00:44:56,610 --> 00:45:01,240

And I need to, and I should, but I just

like, you can't make yourself care.

:

00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:03,820

Like it's, I don't care about

also not as good as it used to be.

:

00:45:03,850 --> 00:45:04,390

Correct.

:

00:45:04,390 --> 00:45:08,530

And I also have really big issues

relying on another corporation.

:

00:45:08,620 --> 00:45:08,800

Yes.

:

00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:09,820

Like meta Yes.

:

00:45:09,820 --> 00:45:12,700

To be the gatekeeper of my

relationship with my customers.

:

00:45:12,730 --> 00:45:13,150

Yes.

:

00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:15,390

, and so yet another corporation Exactly.

:

00:45:15,420 --> 00:45:21,930

Who relies on independent artists and

businesses to prove their concept.

:

00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:22,260

Yep.

:

00:45:22,460 --> 00:45:25,970

And then as soon as it's proven,

they're like, well, I know that

:

00:45:25,970 --> 00:45:29,570

you've gotten all of these people to

start following all of your pages.

:

00:45:29,810 --> 00:45:30,170

Mm-hmm.

:

00:45:30,410 --> 00:45:34,190

But now we're actually not gonna

show anything that you post to

:

00:45:34,190 --> 00:45:38,090

those people that are following

your page unless you give us $5 Yes.

:

00:45:38,090 --> 00:45:40,040

Over and over and over and over again.

:

00:45:40,100 --> 00:45:40,310

Yes.

:

00:45:40,310 --> 00:45:44,840

Which is, and, and then we're

not even gonna actually show you

:

00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:46,340

whether it was effective or not.

:

00:45:46,345 --> 00:45:46,505

Mm-hmm.

:

00:45:46,635 --> 00:45:51,650

We're just gonna show you these

weird, like, I remember trying paid

:

00:45:51,740 --> 00:45:53,600

ads or whatever for forever ago.

:

00:45:53,630 --> 00:45:53,870

Yeah.

:

00:45:53,870 --> 00:45:56,450

And then they would show you these

analytics and have you ever looked at,

:

00:45:56,500 --> 00:46:01,480

, it's like a bar graph that says, days

you're followers are active or whatever.

:

00:46:01,510 --> 00:46:01,780

Yes.

:

00:46:01,990 --> 00:46:06,100

And every single day the bar

is exactly the same height.

:

00:46:06,100 --> 00:46:07,025

And I was like, this is a joke.

:

00:46:07,025 --> 00:46:07,065

Yeah.

:

00:46:07,065 --> 00:46:08,260

Thanks for this really helpful data.

:

00:46:08,260 --> 00:46:09,065

This is a joke meta.

:

00:46:09,215 --> 00:46:09,505

Yeah.

:

00:46:09,510 --> 00:46:09,580

Yeah.

:

00:46:09,640 --> 00:46:10,150

Yeah.

:

00:46:10,150 --> 00:46:10,990

It's insane.

:

00:46:11,140 --> 00:46:14,740

We, we have this reel that's like

not dissimilar to anything that had

:

00:46:14,740 --> 00:46:16,180

been posted a hundred times before.

:

00:46:16,430 --> 00:46:17,870

, but last spring it went mega viral.

:

00:46:17,870 --> 00:46:19,250

I think it has like 24.5.

:

00:46:19,250 --> 00:46:20,540

Do you know why million views?

:

00:46:20,545 --> 00:46:20,785

Like what?

:

00:46:21,615 --> 00:46:25,215

I think if I had to identify

it, I think it was very short.

:

00:46:25,245 --> 00:46:25,365

Okay.

:

00:46:25,365 --> 00:46:28,115

And so it, , would replay

as we were watching it and

:

00:46:28,115 --> 00:46:29,915

it had a very catchy audio.

:

00:46:29,945 --> 00:46:30,245

Okay.

:

00:46:30,275 --> 00:46:34,085

And it was for these really cute rolling

papers that we sell, which was just like

:

00:46:34,145 --> 00:46:37,595

controversial enough that there were some

like obnoxious people in the comments

:

00:46:37,595 --> 00:46:39,065

that were like, you're promoting smoking.

:

00:46:39,065 --> 00:46:39,395

Okay.

:

00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:39,620

Okay.

:

00:46:39,625 --> 00:46:40,205

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

:

00:46:40,205 --> 00:46:40,385

Correct.

:

00:46:40,835 --> 00:46:41,105

Yes.

:

00:46:41,105 --> 00:46:45,275

I fucking am, um, with these

organic, you know, soy based.

:

00:46:45,275 --> 00:46:46,265

Yeah, yeah.

:

00:46:46,425 --> 00:46:51,825

, but we had a huge spike in online sales

and we maintained like a way higher,

:

00:46:52,055 --> 00:46:54,515

, flow of online traffic from that.

:

00:46:54,635 --> 00:46:54,755

Yeah.

:

00:46:54,755 --> 00:46:55,715

That I have noticed.

:

00:46:55,715 --> 00:46:57,365

And it happened right before the holidays.

:

00:46:57,515 --> 00:46:58,715

'cause I don't advertise.

:

00:46:58,715 --> 00:47:00,125

I'm like word of mouth only.

:

00:47:00,125 --> 00:47:00,215

Yeah.

:

00:47:00,215 --> 00:47:01,535

Like, I'm not paying you this money.

:

00:47:01,715 --> 00:47:01,835

Yeah.

:

00:47:01,835 --> 00:47:03,155

I've dabbled in the past.

:

00:47:03,155 --> 00:47:03,750

I'm not good at it.

:

00:47:03,755 --> 00:47:04,475

It doesn't make sense to me.

:

00:47:04,475 --> 00:47:04,655

Right.

:

00:47:04,895 --> 00:47:06,905

I don't understand the

metrics you're sending me.

:

00:47:06,965 --> 00:47:07,025

Yeah.

:

00:47:07,085 --> 00:47:07,445

I don't know.

:

00:47:07,445 --> 00:47:08,345

Is this good?

:

00:47:08,345 --> 00:47:08,915

I don't know.

:

00:47:08,975 --> 00:47:11,855

I felt like I was spending more

money and there wasn't, the amount

:

00:47:11,855 --> 00:47:15,635

I was spending on ads was not

reflective of additional sales.

:

00:47:15,695 --> 00:47:15,785

Right.

:

00:47:15,790 --> 00:47:16,535

And so I was like, fuck this.

:

00:47:16,715 --> 00:47:17,855

We'll let it be organic.

:

00:47:18,155 --> 00:47:20,795

But before the holidays I noticed I

was like, we're fucking shadow banned,

:

00:47:20,955 --> 00:47:24,495

reels that I would post that, like

before that would get 10,000 views.

:

00:47:24,495 --> 00:47:25,785

We're getting like 900.

:

00:47:25,785 --> 00:47:26,235

Interesting.

:

00:47:26,235 --> 00:47:27,525

And I was like, you gotta be kidding me.

:

00:47:27,525 --> 00:47:30,195

It's 'cause they want me to

advertise during the holidays.

:

00:47:30,195 --> 00:47:30,375

Yeah.

:

00:47:30,375 --> 00:47:31,005

And I was like, no.

:

00:47:31,245 --> 00:47:37,065

Um, and so luckily the sales were okay,

but like, it's just, it's really hard.

:

00:47:37,065 --> 00:47:38,145

And this may.

:

00:47:38,700 --> 00:47:39,900

Also resonate with you.

:

00:47:40,410 --> 00:47:44,400

I, it's, I have an expression that , I

wanna do business with people it

:

00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:45,690

feels good to do business with.

:

00:47:45,690 --> 00:47:46,110

Absolutely.

:

00:47:46,110 --> 00:47:46,290

Yeah.

:

00:47:46,290 --> 00:47:48,420

Whether that's vendors or

landlord, landlords or whoever.

:

00:47:48,420 --> 00:47:48,600

Totally.

:

00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:48,810

Yeah.

:

00:47:48,930 --> 00:47:53,850

And there's so many little brands where

it's like, I, I do all of the legwork of

:

00:47:53,850 --> 00:47:58,770

finding somebody that's a good fit with

our values and start placing orders and

:

00:47:58,770 --> 00:48:00,120

try to start a relationship with them.

:

00:48:00,180 --> 00:48:01,770

And then I'm like, I

don't like these people.

:

00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:04,560

They're like not good communicators,

or, my shit's always late, or my

:

00:48:04,560 --> 00:48:05,760

shit's broken, or dah, dah, dah.

:

00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:06,810

And then I'm like, damn.

:

00:48:06,810 --> 00:48:09,210

And like, optically, you

would think, what a great fit.

:

00:48:09,240 --> 00:48:10,170

And then you Yeah.

:

00:48:10,260 --> 00:48:12,120

Move the curtain and you're

like, yeah, they suck.

:

00:48:12,180 --> 00:48:13,500

And you do it all over again.

:

00:48:13,530 --> 00:48:13,800

Yeah.

:

00:48:13,950 --> 00:48:17,640

, and so I'm, I'm a little curmudgeony

right now, but I feel like , once

:

00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:20,160

you get into it, there's so many

little things where you're like, oh,

:

00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:23,160

that's like, this doesn't have to be

this way, but this is the way it is.

:

00:48:23,190 --> 00:48:23,430

Yeah.

:

00:48:23,550 --> 00:48:26,580

'cause people before us decided that

that's how it is, essentially, you know?

:

00:48:26,585 --> 00:48:28,260

Yeah, yeah.

:

00:48:28,620 --> 00:48:29,280

I know.

:

00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:29,700

I know.

:

00:48:29,700 --> 00:48:35,370

And people have been saying for, it

feels like a decade now or something,

:

00:48:35,370 --> 00:48:38,760

that brick and mortar retail is dying.

:

00:48:38,790 --> 00:48:43,560

And if you aren't online, if you're not

selling on TikTok, if you're not selling

:

00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:46,680

on Instagram, if you don't have a Facebook

store, if you don't have like all of these

:

00:48:46,680 --> 00:48:51,000

things, if you don't pay someone 20 grand

to like do your SEO or whatever it is,

:

00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:52,800

you know, literally that you're dying.

:

00:48:52,860 --> 00:48:55,380

Like your, your days are numbered, right?

:

00:48:55,410 --> 00:48:55,800

Yeah.

:

00:48:56,010 --> 00:49:04,920

, and I, I, I don't know if I just

don't want it to be true or what,

:

00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:07,440

but I just don't think that's true.

:

00:49:07,470 --> 00:49:07,740

Yeah.

:

00:49:07,740 --> 00:49:08,670

I think.

:

00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:17,070

People will always want to come into a

space that makes them feel good, that

:

00:49:17,070 --> 00:49:22,920

smells good, that has like a friendly

face that they have seen before, that

:

00:49:23,100 --> 00:49:26,070

this person knows their dog's name.

:

00:49:26,370 --> 00:49:26,430

Yeah.

:

00:49:26,430 --> 00:49:29,670

And you know, is like, would

you like some sparkling water?

:

00:49:29,670 --> 00:49:31,050

And like, take your time.

:

00:49:31,050 --> 00:49:32,520

Like smell all the perfumes.

:

00:49:32,520 --> 00:49:33,270

Spray it all, girl.

:

00:49:33,270 --> 00:49:33,720

Go ahead.

:

00:49:33,720 --> 00:49:36,480

Like, you know, I took an vert

before I came to work, like,

:

00:49:36,780 --> 00:49:38,085

you know, have your experience.

:

00:49:38,190 --> 00:49:39,240

Yeah, exactly.

:

00:49:39,240 --> 00:49:44,650

Like, , I think a certain amount of

people are always gonna want that.

:

00:49:45,010 --> 00:49:47,950

You know, don't, here's the

issue I'm seeing because

:

00:49:47,950 --> 00:49:49,090

I'm somebody who wants that.

:

00:49:49,150 --> 00:49:49,540

It's me too.

:

00:49:49,540 --> 00:49:51,910

I would much prefer me to

shop online with real humans.

:

00:49:52,120 --> 00:49:55,900

However, I do more shopping like

that when I travel because mm-hmm.

:

00:49:56,140 --> 00:49:56,920

I just have more time.

:

00:49:56,925 --> 00:49:56,955

Mm-hmm.

:

00:49:57,040 --> 00:49:57,370

You know?

:

00:49:57,430 --> 00:49:57,820

Yeah.

:

00:49:58,060 --> 00:50:00,970

But I think, and I've

experienced this on my end also.

:

00:50:01,990 --> 00:50:04,330

There's staffing issues and they're, yeah.

:

00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:11,740

It's really difficult for small

business owners to, uh, staff people

:

00:50:11,740 --> 00:50:15,355

at the price range that would make

it worth, you know, staffing them.

:

00:50:15,355 --> 00:50:15,515

Yes.

:

00:50:15,515 --> 00:50:15,675

Yeah.

:

00:50:15,675 --> 00:50:16,840

And not make a waste of your time.

:

00:50:16,840 --> 00:50:16,930

Mm-hmm.

:

00:50:17,320 --> 00:50:21,160

And the experience in store that

the owner wants their customers

:

00:50:21,160 --> 00:50:26,620

to have is not necessarily being

maintained by the employee.

:

00:50:26,890 --> 00:50:27,250

Yes.

:

00:50:27,250 --> 00:50:32,830

You're fortunate when you have people

on your team who really believe in

:

00:50:32,830 --> 00:50:38,380

what you're doing and care for your

store the way that you would Yeah.

:

00:50:38,380 --> 00:50:40,690

The ones who get it,

it's very hard to find.

:

00:50:40,810 --> 00:50:41,350

Yes.

:

00:50:41,350 --> 00:50:42,310

I have that right now.

:

00:50:42,310 --> 00:50:43,150

Shout out Saul.

:

00:50:43,150 --> 00:50:43,990

Thank you so much.

:

00:50:44,020 --> 00:50:44,080

Yay.

:

00:50:44,770 --> 00:50:48,970

Um, and yeah, I agree.

:

00:50:49,060 --> 00:50:49,480

I agree.

:

00:50:49,480 --> 00:50:52,480

I've had so many different

experiences with staffing.

:

00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:55,510

It It is, it is also, I think.

:

00:50:57,190 --> 00:51:01,810

Going to the idea that like people

have questions or wonder what it would

:

00:51:01,810 --> 00:51:03,190

be like to be a small business owner.

:

00:51:03,190 --> 00:51:09,640

I think that topic of, of whether

or not you can and should or would

:

00:51:09,640 --> 00:51:11,890

be a good people manager Yeah.

:

00:51:11,890 --> 00:51:17,895

Is a question that people should ask

themselves very starkly and totally

:

00:51:17,895 --> 00:51:23,170

agree and be honest with themselves

about, , because it, once you start to

:

00:51:23,170 --> 00:51:28,630

have employees, it takes up quite a lot

of your emotional and mental energy.

:

00:51:28,690 --> 00:51:29,410

Absolutely.

:

00:51:29,470 --> 00:51:30,045

And they're expensive.

:

00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:31,120

They're expensive.

:

00:51:31,210 --> 00:51:33,880

And, , it's good because you get a break.

:

00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:34,090

Mm-hmm.

:

00:51:34,330 --> 00:51:38,770

If you feel good and you have a good

relationship going and like your

:

00:51:38,770 --> 00:51:42,250

employees are happy and they're doing

well, like, then you get to take a break.

:

00:51:42,250 --> 00:51:42,490

Right.

:

00:51:42,490 --> 00:51:43,000

So that's great.

:

00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:43,090

Yes.

:

00:51:43,090 --> 00:51:43,930

Like you need that.

:

00:51:44,180 --> 00:51:48,920

, or you just get to do work without

stopping 500 times and you know.

:

00:51:49,040 --> 00:51:49,280

Yes.

:

00:51:49,330 --> 00:51:54,460

So, you know, but not everyone

is cut out to be a boss.

:

00:51:54,580 --> 00:51:54,850

Yes.

:

00:51:55,300 --> 00:51:56,410

I think a lot of people aren't.

:

00:51:56,500 --> 00:51:56,890

Yeah.

:

00:51:56,950 --> 00:51:58,060

But probably most people.

:

00:51:58,150 --> 00:51:59,020

Yeah, actually.

:

00:51:59,140 --> 00:51:59,560

Yeah.

:

00:52:00,430 --> 00:52:00,910

Yeah.

:

00:52:01,090 --> 00:52:04,690

And actually to what, I was just having

this conversation with some friends

:

00:52:04,690 --> 00:52:08,220

actually a couple days ago, that

reminds me of what you just said about

:

00:52:08,220 --> 00:52:12,300

how we're all doing these things just

because some people a long time ago

:

00:52:12,300 --> 00:52:14,370

said, this is how we should all live.

:

00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:14,850

Yeah.

:

00:52:14,940 --> 00:52:19,470

, and we were talking about like bad

managers and how there's so many people

:

00:52:19,470 --> 00:52:24,240

in the world who have no business

having any sort of control over the

:

00:52:24,240 --> 00:52:29,700

day-to-day life experience or the, like,

safety of other people's livelihoods.

:

00:52:29,820 --> 00:52:29,910

Yeah.

:

00:52:29,910 --> 00:52:30,870

Or whatever.

:

00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:36,090

Countless of numbers of people in those

positions that have no business being in

:

00:52:36,090 --> 00:52:44,220

that position and agreed they are in those

positions because the systems that we've.

:

00:52:44,640 --> 00:52:50,070

Assigned as work, like

what work is mm-hmm.

:

00:52:50,400 --> 00:52:51,750

Required that.

:

00:52:52,080 --> 00:52:52,590

Yeah.

:

00:52:52,740 --> 00:52:58,800

And I just don't know if, I think like the

future of work, you know, as a concept.

:

00:52:59,430 --> 00:53:03,360

I don't, I hope that that

we get away from that.

:

00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:04,530

We have to.

:

00:53:04,710 --> 00:53:04,980

Yeah.

:

00:53:04,980 --> 00:53:05,940

I think it's, it's not sustainable.

:

00:53:05,940 --> 00:53:06,450

Unsustainable.

:

00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:06,660

Yeah.

:

00:53:06,665 --> 00:53:06,765

Yeah.

:

00:53:06,770 --> 00:53:07,230

I agree.

:

00:53:07,380 --> 00:53:10,680

And we're seeing it on a

national level as well.

:

00:53:10,710 --> 00:53:10,860

Yeah.

:

00:53:10,890 --> 00:53:14,130

I mean, lots of old systems

and structures Yeah.

:

00:53:14,310 --> 00:53:15,270

Are.

:

00:53:15,270 --> 00:53:19,170

I think in their last gasping breath

because it's very clearly unsustainable.

:

00:53:19,170 --> 00:53:22,080

And you made a comment earlier at

the beginning of our conversation

:

00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:25,230

about the thought of going

into academia and then Yes.

:

00:53:25,260 --> 00:53:27,330

What the healthcare initiative Yes.

:

00:53:27,330 --> 00:53:27,960

Meant for that.

:

00:53:28,110 --> 00:53:28,260

Yeah.

:

00:53:28,340 --> 00:53:32,000

, and we're seeing this with, you know,

what, what auto manufacturers don't

:

00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:35,840

wanna say, for example, is the reason

lots of parts in assembly are happening

:

00:53:35,840 --> 00:53:40,040

in Mexico and Canada is because they

have healthcare for their citizens.

:

00:53:40,070 --> 00:53:43,820

And as manufacturers, they don't

have to pay their staff healthcare.

:

00:53:44,120 --> 00:53:47,750

, so it is very expensive to own

a business in the United States.

:

00:53:47,810 --> 00:53:47,960

Yeah.

:

00:53:47,990 --> 00:53:53,060

Because of how much isn't provided

for just the average human being.

:

00:53:53,090 --> 00:53:53,570

Oh my God.

:

00:53:53,600 --> 00:53:58,580

Um, we, you know, that rabbit

hole of like, what a disaster

:

00:53:58,580 --> 00:54:00,590

our healthcare industry is Yeah.

:

00:54:00,590 --> 00:54:05,180

Has no bottom, it's, you know,

crazy is a total disaster.

:

00:54:05,210 --> 00:54:05,630

Yeah.

:

00:54:05,960 --> 00:54:09,170

And I think anybody who, anybody

who isn't a small business owner

:

00:54:09,170 --> 00:54:10,580

or a business owner of any size,

:

00:54:10,880 --> 00:54:13,970

. Uh, I think it would be very

easy to be like, well, if I had

:

00:54:13,970 --> 00:54:16,485

a business, I'd offer, of course

Id take everyone's $25 an hour.

:

00:54:17,090 --> 00:54:17,810

Of course I'd give them

the best healthcare.

:

00:54:17,810 --> 00:54:19,325

I'd give them these benefits

and da dah, dah, dah.

:

00:54:19,330 --> 00:54:19,430

Yeah.

:

00:54:19,460 --> 00:54:21,290

And then you get into

it and you're like, oh.

:

00:54:21,320 --> 00:54:24,005

Like that's, some of

this just isn't possible.

:

00:54:24,005 --> 00:54:24,006

Yeah.

:

00:54:24,050 --> 00:54:28,390

People are like, oh, I'll just pay them

$10 an hour and, , and that'll be it.

:

00:54:28,390 --> 00:54:30,370

So it'll cost me $80 a day.

:

00:54:30,370 --> 00:54:33,130

And it's like, well, actually no one

will work for that, nor should they.

:

00:54:33,220 --> 00:54:33,340

Yeah.

:

00:54:33,370 --> 00:54:37,180

But that's not how much it costs to have

an employee right now, hashtag taxes

:

00:54:37,205 --> 00:54:42,610

and, and also go ahead and add like 25%

on top of that for all of the employer

:

00:54:42,610 --> 00:54:44,590

paid things that you're gonna be paying.

:

00:54:44,680 --> 00:54:44,890

Yeah.

:

00:54:44,920 --> 00:54:45,940

The insurance.

:

00:54:45,940 --> 00:54:48,550

Like all of the, like just all of it.

:

00:54:48,610 --> 00:54:48,700

Yeah.

:

00:54:48,700 --> 00:54:52,810

You know, go ahead and like, just

add 25% extra on top of whatever

:

00:54:52,810 --> 00:54:54,370

realistic number you come up with.

:

00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:54,790

Yeah.

:

00:54:54,850 --> 00:54:56,170

, and you're gonna eat last.

:

00:54:56,560 --> 00:54:56,770

Mm-hmm.

:

00:54:57,010 --> 00:54:57,610

A hundred percent.

:

00:54:57,610 --> 00:54:57,910

You are.

:

00:54:58,330 --> 00:55:00,010

So, and that's okay.

:

00:55:00,010 --> 00:55:02,200

I've always felt really

like, strongly about that.

:

00:55:02,200 --> 00:55:03,550

Like, I will always eat last.

:

00:55:03,580 --> 00:55:04,000

Yes.

:

00:55:04,050 --> 00:55:05,100

, but I, okay.

:

00:55:06,825 --> 00:55:10,995

For a while, I took it as like a badge

of honor of like, yeah, I will eat last.

:

00:55:10,995 --> 00:55:11,145

Right.

:

00:55:11,145 --> 00:55:12,015

Like, I'm proud.

:

00:55:12,045 --> 00:55:12,195

Yeah.

:

00:55:12,195 --> 00:55:13,455

I don't, it I can afford.

:

00:55:13,695 --> 00:55:14,025

Right.

:

00:55:14,055 --> 00:55:15,230

It's obviously, it's not ideal.

:

00:55:15,235 --> 00:55:16,245

I'm also hungry.

:

00:55:16,335 --> 00:55:17,110

Yes, exactly.

:

00:55:17,410 --> 00:55:18,270

And I have to change.

:

00:55:18,735 --> 00:55:22,785

Um, but it's like I, I would be

very proud of myself that like, I

:

00:55:22,785 --> 00:55:27,885

can employ people and like, I, I

I, it felt good to provide Yeah.

:

00:55:27,945 --> 00:55:29,715

Safety and security to

people outside of yourself.

:

00:55:29,715 --> 00:55:29,775

Yeah.

:

00:55:29,775 --> 00:55:33,915

And to me that is reflective of being

like having a successful business.

:

00:55:33,945 --> 00:55:37,275

But why are we, why am I feeling

proud of doing something that

:

00:55:37,275 --> 00:55:38,805

shouldn't be my responsibility?

:

00:55:38,925 --> 00:55:42,045

When you take a step back and

look at it from a bigger picture.

:

00:55:42,075 --> 00:55:42,315

Yeah.

:

00:55:42,555 --> 00:55:44,085

Everyone needs healthcare, right?

:

00:55:44,175 --> 00:55:44,565

I know.

:

00:55:45,210 --> 00:55:46,620

I know, it's so silly.

:

00:55:46,680 --> 00:55:47,040

I know.

:

00:55:47,100 --> 00:55:51,210

Um, well, and it's like quickly becomes

sort of like, you definitely don't wanna

:

00:55:51,210 --> 00:55:54,930

like slip into like any sort of like

weird like martyr syndrome where you're

:

00:55:54,930 --> 00:55:56,640

like, for sure I'll always eat last.

:

00:55:56,640 --> 00:55:58,650

And you know, I definitely

don't mean it like that.

:

00:55:58,950 --> 00:56:03,330

, same, more so from a place of just

like that is obviously the right thing

:

00:56:03,330 --> 00:56:04,770

to, I mean, obvious to us, I guess.

:

00:56:04,770 --> 00:56:04,830

Yeah.

:

00:56:04,830 --> 00:56:06,840

That like, that's the

right thing to do for sure.

:

00:56:06,920 --> 00:56:13,460

. But I do think that it's also

unsustainable for you as a business owner

:

00:56:13,460 --> 00:56:16,940

for for small business owners, for a

small business owner for a long time, yes.

:

00:56:16,940 --> 00:56:20,300

To just be, you know, I'm always

willing to go through periods

:

00:56:20,300 --> 00:56:23,360

of time where I'm sacrificing.

:

00:56:23,410 --> 00:56:28,200

, and I'm very fortunate that, , you

know, my husband, I'm very thankful that

:

00:56:28,200 --> 00:56:31,950

he's a corporate guy, that it doesn't

like, suck his soul for some reason.

:

00:56:31,950 --> 00:56:33,875

Somehow he's fine with it, good for him.

:

00:56:33,880 --> 00:56:40,150

Um, he's, you know, he is got a very

like, , stable job that he enjoys, that

:

00:56:40,150 --> 00:56:42,760

he loves stable career, that he loves.

:

00:56:42,810 --> 00:56:45,300

, he's in residential

home building and cool.

:

00:56:45,360 --> 00:56:46,620

, he's also an arty boy.

:

00:56:46,620 --> 00:56:49,800

He's a writer and a musician and,

you know, he does lots of things.

:

00:56:49,830 --> 00:56:49,980

Love it.

:

00:56:50,010 --> 00:56:55,660

, but, , he's been wildly supportive

of, you know, a month or two here,

:

00:56:55,720 --> 00:56:59,950

a couple months here, a month there,

like where I'm like, you know.

:

00:57:00,245 --> 00:57:02,435

Like, I'm, I don't get to eat this month.

:

00:57:02,495 --> 00:57:02,765

Yeah.

:

00:57:02,815 --> 00:57:03,505

, things are weird.

:

00:57:03,505 --> 00:57:08,005

The interstate burned down and so

therefore no one shopping anymore.

:

00:57:08,005 --> 00:57:08,845

Question mark.

:

00:57:08,845 --> 00:57:09,655

Like Yeah.

:

00:57:09,715 --> 00:57:12,295

, just weird things that,

that have come up, you know?

:

00:57:12,295 --> 00:57:12,625

Yeah.

:

00:57:12,625 --> 00:57:12,865

It raided.

:

00:57:13,850 --> 00:57:14,140

Yeah.

:

00:57:14,785 --> 00:57:15,835

Yeah, exactly.

:

00:57:15,935 --> 00:57:18,585

, but, , yeah, yeah, I know what you mean.

:

00:57:18,585 --> 00:57:22,815

It's, it's, well, and now speaking of

things you have to pay for that, you're

:

00:57:22,815 --> 00:57:24,705

like, why am I paying for this now?

:

00:57:24,705 --> 00:57:28,725

I know everyone's talking about

this, how, , they are, there are

:

00:57:28,725 --> 00:57:32,806

Republicans are wanting to cut, you

know, social security and mm-hmm.

:

00:57:32,950 --> 00:57:37,965

Medicaid and Medicare, and it's like,

okay, well, , why are we all still gonna

:

00:57:38,025 --> 00:57:42,285

pay you this if you're going to cut it

and steal it and give it to yourself?

:

00:57:42,525 --> 00:57:42,795

Yeah.

:

00:57:42,800 --> 00:57:44,355

What's a, what's, what's happening?

:

00:57:44,385 --> 00:57:47,295

Well, I mean, literally it's like,

are we like, I'm like looking around

:

00:57:47,295 --> 00:57:48,855

the room, like, are we paying taxes?

:

00:57:48,855 --> 00:57:48,945

Yeah.

:

00:57:49,485 --> 00:57:52,455

Like, are we just gonna keep

putting money in their bank?

:

00:57:52,635 --> 00:57:53,565

What's happening?

:

00:57:53,595 --> 00:57:53,925

Yeah.

:

00:57:54,320 --> 00:57:57,890

Like this is not, nothing

mobile is happening.

:

00:57:57,920 --> 00:57:58,340

Right.

:

00:57:58,370 --> 00:57:58,940

Yeah.

:

00:57:59,000 --> 00:58:00,260

It's, yeah.

:

00:58:00,485 --> 00:58:05,600

I, I, I think that there's such

a difference in being a small

:

00:58:05,600 --> 00:58:08,540

business owner and working for a

corporation or being the corporation.

:

00:58:08,570 --> 00:58:08,810

Yeah.

:

00:58:08,840 --> 00:58:13,310

And it's like we get squeezed everywhere

we turn, there's like somebody's handout.

:

00:58:13,340 --> 00:58:13,820

Yes.

:

00:58:13,850 --> 00:58:16,760

And it's like the illusion

of the American dream.

:

00:58:16,760 --> 00:58:16,850

Yes.

:

00:58:17,090 --> 00:58:18,380

Um, and I haven't.

:

00:58:18,635 --> 00:58:21,905

My feelings on this have really

evolved over the last couple years.

:

00:58:21,935 --> 00:58:22,145

Yeah.

:

00:58:22,245 --> 00:58:25,725

, I used to feel very much like

I am like the Walking American

:

00:58:25,725 --> 00:58:27,615

dream, , success story.

:

00:58:27,615 --> 00:58:31,425

Like I didn't go to college, like I

shouldn't be doing these amazing things

:

00:58:31,425 --> 00:58:35,295

or having these experiences, but I've

worked hard and I've pulled myself up

:

00:58:35,295 --> 00:58:37,275

by the bootstraps and blah, blah, blah.

:

00:58:37,275 --> 00:58:37,335

Yeah.

:

00:58:37,435 --> 00:58:41,755

, and then, you know, you look at people who

absolutely don't work harder than you, but

:

00:58:41,755 --> 00:58:47,035

make a hundred thousand times more simply

because of like where they were born and

:

00:58:47,035 --> 00:58:49,585

how life just like happened for them.

:

00:58:49,585 --> 00:58:50,185

You know?

:

00:58:50,245 --> 00:58:54,355

And there's just like a baseline

of human welfare and security that

:

00:58:54,355 --> 00:58:57,735

I think isn't too much to ask for.

:

00:58:57,735 --> 00:58:58,275

Yeah.

:

00:58:58,275 --> 00:59:06,645

And I think about this a lot, like, why

don't we want our society to be populated

:

00:59:06,645 --> 00:59:14,145

by m mostly satisfied people who.

:

00:59:14,700 --> 00:59:21,720

Are contributing something to society that

they feel proud of, that they're good at.

:

00:59:21,720 --> 00:59:21,810

Mm-hmm.

:

00:59:22,050 --> 00:59:27,420

That is like their strength and like

something that they feel they uniquely

:

00:59:27,420 --> 00:59:31,260

have to offer to our community.

:

00:59:31,260 --> 00:59:31,320

Yeah.

:

00:59:31,350 --> 00:59:36,375

Like why don't we want people to be

contributing to our community in that

:

00:59:36,375 --> 00:59:40,875

way and the way that they feel like

the most satisfied and gratified and

:

00:59:40,875 --> 00:59:45,520

like good at, I can tell you why don't

we, I mean, I know why, but like what?

:

00:59:46,150 --> 00:59:47,925

Like there's more of us than them.

:

00:59:47,925 --> 00:59:48,195

Right?

:

00:59:48,195 --> 00:59:51,015

So like that's the question

I like have all the time is

:

00:59:51,015 --> 00:59:52,905

like, just why, like why Yeah.

:

00:59:52,905 --> 00:59:54,375

There's so many more of us.

:

00:59:54,405 --> 00:59:54,795

Yeah.

:

00:59:55,395 --> 00:59:59,835

I, I think there's reckoning

coming in this department and,

:

00:59:59,835 --> 01:00:01,365

uh, whether it's by force.

:

01:00:01,365 --> 01:00:03,465

Or just time.

:

01:00:03,735 --> 01:00:05,355

It's, it's unsustainable.

:

01:00:05,385 --> 01:00:05,895

It, yeah.

:

01:00:05,895 --> 01:00:07,095

It can't, it's literally unsustainable.

:

01:00:07,095 --> 01:00:12,885

Well, and also because, you know, they

are pressing the boot down harder.

:

01:00:12,945 --> 01:00:13,275

Yeah.

:

01:00:13,485 --> 01:00:21,340

And I think that more and more and more

people are starting to wake up that like.

:

01:00:21,945 --> 01:00:24,405

The boots on your neck

and it's also on my neck.

:

01:00:24,410 --> 01:00:24,630

Mm-hmm.

:

01:00:24,715 --> 01:00:26,445

Like we both have the boot on our neck.

:

01:00:26,445 --> 01:00:26,535

Yes.

:

01:00:26,535 --> 01:00:30,915

So like, how about we like look

up instead of at each other?

:

01:00:31,305 --> 01:00:31,695

Yeah.

:

01:00:31,995 --> 01:00:32,625

Well, I totally agree.

:

01:00:32,625 --> 01:00:32,910

You know, agree.

:

01:00:32,985 --> 01:00:35,235

I referenced this in another

episode, but I'm like, right now

:

01:00:35,235 --> 01:00:37,035

it's like it's not right versus left.

:

01:00:37,035 --> 01:00:38,085

It's up versus down.

:

01:00:38,175 --> 01:00:38,325

Yeah.

:

01:00:38,325 --> 01:00:39,945

When I say up, I mean billionaires.

:

01:00:39,945 --> 01:00:40,215

Yes.

:

01:00:40,215 --> 01:00:42,255

Like I, I, I know lots of millionaires.

:

01:00:42,285 --> 01:00:44,085

They are also down right in this.

:

01:00:44,585 --> 01:00:45,095

Equation.

:

01:00:45,215 --> 01:00:45,485

Oh yeah.

:

01:00:45,485 --> 01:00:46,085

Isn't that weird?

:

01:00:46,085 --> 01:00:49,805

Like when you were a kid, didn't you

think like a million dollars was like,

:

01:00:50,375 --> 01:00:52,085

bel an unbelievable amount of money Yes.

:

01:00:52,145 --> 01:00:56,711

That you're like, I could live for

the, if I had one life million do, if I

:

01:00:56,716 --> 01:00:58,565

just had like one single million Yeah.

:

01:00:58,625 --> 01:01:00,155

I would be set for my whole life.

:

01:01:00,155 --> 01:01:00,215

Yeah.

:

01:01:00,270 --> 01:01:01,295

And now you're like, haha.

:

01:01:01,295 --> 01:01:01,565

And

:

01:01:03,875 --> 01:01:07,355

yeah, now they're like, you

need $27 million to retire.

:

01:01:07,355 --> 01:01:09,785

And you're like, cool, I

guess I'll die instead.

:

01:01:09,785 --> 01:01:12,155

Like, don't, my retirement

plan is suicide.

:

01:01:12,455 --> 01:01:16,565

Like, I literally, like, that's

my worst case scenario of choice.

:

01:01:16,565 --> 01:01:21,605

I don't, it's, and if you go to these

like, uh, retirement calculators

:

01:01:22,205 --> 01:01:25,565

and you put all of your information

in, or even you put like speculative

:

01:01:25,565 --> 01:01:28,595

information in whatever it is that you

put in, you're, every time I've ever

:

01:01:28,595 --> 01:01:33,815

done that, I've looked at it and been

like, I don't know a single person who.

:

01:01:34,895 --> 01:01:35,940

We can do this.

:

01:01:35,970 --> 01:01:36,240

Yeah.

:

01:01:36,240 --> 01:01:40,110

Who, who is doing this and who

can do this not without great

:

01:01:40,110 --> 01:01:42,510

sacrifice to their existing life.

:

01:01:42,750 --> 01:01:42,810

Yeah.

:

01:01:42,810 --> 01:01:46,620

And I'm really into, uh, I'm,

I'm, I'm very good with my money.

:

01:01:46,620 --> 01:01:47,850

I enjoy finances.

:

01:01:47,850 --> 01:01:51,000

I enjoy saving, I enjoy seeing a cushion.

:

01:01:51,030 --> 01:01:51,300

Yeah.

:

01:01:51,390 --> 01:01:54,690

Um, but I also enjoy

living my fucking life.

:

01:01:54,690 --> 01:01:54,955

Of course, of course.

:

01:01:54,960 --> 01:01:56,070

You could die any day.

:

01:01:56,070 --> 01:01:56,880

Exactly.

:

01:01:56,880 --> 01:01:57,210

Yeah.

:

01:01:57,215 --> 01:01:57,635

Exactly.

:

01:01:57,775 --> 01:01:58,035

Of course.

:

01:01:58,035 --> 01:01:58,155

Yeah.

:

01:01:58,160 --> 01:02:00,870

So it's like such a hard balance to Yes.

:

01:02:00,870 --> 01:02:03,120

Enjoy yourself and if you're

not enjoying the fruits of

:

01:02:03,120 --> 01:02:04,350

your labor, why work so hard?

:

01:02:04,470 --> 01:02:05,070

Right, exactly.

:

01:02:05,070 --> 01:02:05,220

Yeah.

:

01:02:05,270 --> 01:02:08,180

. But yeah, it's just all

like, I know heavy themes.

:

01:02:08,330 --> 01:02:09,770

Uh, I know.

:

01:02:09,890 --> 01:02:10,940

Have you noticed?

:

01:02:10,940 --> 01:02:15,860

So right now there's like a target strike

and an Amazon strike, and like people

:

01:02:15,860 --> 01:02:19,610

are finally realizing that they vote

with their dollar and how important,

:

01:02:19,670 --> 01:02:21,530

how important each choice you make.

:

01:02:21,530 --> 01:02:24,250

And , just taking a step back and

like, do I need to Amazon Prime this?

:

01:02:24,250 --> 01:02:25,930

Or can I just grab this at a local store?

:

01:02:25,930 --> 01:02:26,020

Mm-hmm.

:

01:02:26,290 --> 01:02:26,712

Dah, dah, dah, dah.

:

01:02:26,920 --> 01:02:30,610

But I have noticed a slowdown, and

of course it's that time of year.

:

01:02:30,640 --> 01:02:30,940

Yeah.

:

01:02:31,040 --> 01:02:34,130

, but I feel like people aren't just holding

back from shopping with corporations.

:

01:02:34,130 --> 01:02:35,480

They're holding back from shopping.

:

01:02:35,690 --> 01:02:36,500

I think that's true.

:

01:02:36,530 --> 01:02:37,070

Yeah.

:

01:02:37,100 --> 01:02:37,400

Yeah.

:

01:02:37,400 --> 01:02:41,390

I think everyone, when when times

feel uncertain, people tighten up.

:

01:02:41,450 --> 01:02:41,705

Totally.

:

01:02:41,705 --> 01:02:42,350

In all regards.

:

01:02:42,350 --> 01:02:42,590

Yes.

:

01:02:42,620 --> 01:02:44,960

And so I definitely, I think that's true.

:

01:02:45,355 --> 01:02:48,200

I feel, I think that's been

happening for a couple years.

:

01:02:48,290 --> 01:02:48,710

Yeah.

:

01:02:48,710 --> 01:02:48,920

Right.

:

01:02:48,920 --> 01:02:50,990

I think it's been more than just recently.

:

01:02:50,990 --> 01:02:53,210

I mean, I definitely

think the rhetoric around.

:

01:02:53,660 --> 01:02:57,890

Boycotting spending money and all

of that has ratcheted up for sure.

:

01:02:58,010 --> 01:02:58,280

Yeah.

:

01:02:58,330 --> 01:03:00,160

, and I fully support all of that.

:

01:03:00,160 --> 01:03:04,690

I'm doing those things in my life

too, you know, like I'm definitely,

:

01:03:04,690 --> 01:03:07,270

I don't remember the last thing

I bought from Amazon, you know,

:

01:03:07,270 --> 01:03:08,920

especially I canceled my Amazon time.

:

01:03:08,920 --> 01:03:09,010

Yes.

:

01:03:09,070 --> 01:03:09,370

Yeah.

:

01:03:09,370 --> 01:03:10,150

I need to do that.

:

01:03:10,180 --> 01:03:13,090

I haven't done that yet, my credit

card, but I need to, I need to do that.

:

01:03:13,090 --> 01:03:13,091

Yeah.

:

01:03:13,120 --> 01:03:14,110

I thought about that the other day.

:

01:03:14,110 --> 01:03:16,840

But yeah, I mean, I'm definitely doing it.

:

01:03:16,840 --> 01:03:16,930

Mm-hmm.

:

01:03:16,930 --> 01:03:24,970

And I guess I will say I also probably

am buying less things across the board.

:

01:03:24,970 --> 01:03:28,030

Like, do I really need to try a new serum?

:

01:03:28,090 --> 01:03:28,270

Right.

:

01:03:28,600 --> 01:03:32,320

Do I, you know, I'll, I'll, I'm

probably doing that as well.

:

01:03:32,350 --> 01:03:32,500

Yeah.

:

01:03:32,540 --> 01:03:34,670

, but I do think that.

:

01:03:36,425 --> 01:03:42,635

Uh, the few days before the

boycott, the blackout day mm-hmm.

:

01:03:42,636 --> 01:03:43,025

That Friday mm-hmm.

:

01:03:43,355 --> 01:03:47,285

I started seeing all of these posts

ratcheting up on Instagram from small

:

01:03:47,285 --> 01:03:51,665

businesses from around the country where

it almost felt like you could tell

:

01:03:51,695 --> 01:03:55,145

there was like a, a, um, desperation Yes.

:

01:03:55,145 --> 01:03:58,160

Like an energy behind it of like,

don't forget you can stop, stop.

:

01:03:58,165 --> 01:03:58,475

Don't.

:

01:03:58,535 --> 01:03:58,925

No, no, no.

:

01:03:58,925 --> 01:04:00,215

It doesn't mean don't shop with us.

:

01:04:00,215 --> 01:04:00,635

You know?

:

01:04:00,635 --> 01:04:00,695

Yeah.

:

01:04:00,695 --> 01:04:04,145

And, and I get it, like there,

I definitely felt like once I

:

01:04:04,145 --> 01:04:07,145

started seeing all of those posts

happening, I was like, fuck.

:

01:04:07,145 --> 01:04:09,155

Like, should I post that?

:

01:04:09,155 --> 01:04:14,825

Like, should I say like, they don't

mean us, they mean target, you know?

:

01:04:14,855 --> 01:04:14,915

Yeah.

:

01:04:14,915 --> 01:04:15,575

Or whatever.

:

01:04:15,675 --> 01:04:22,515

, and I'm really like, I'm bad at, I'm

bad at this type of thing because I'll.

:

01:04:22,860 --> 01:04:25,590

Mull over whether or not

I should or shouldn't.

:

01:04:25,590 --> 01:04:27,390

And then, you know, it's four days passed.

:

01:04:27,390 --> 01:04:27,480

Right.

:

01:04:27,480 --> 01:04:30,690

And I'm, well, I just didn't,

um, so I guess that I can

:

01:04:30,690 --> 01:04:31,680

stop thinking about this now.

:

01:04:31,680 --> 01:04:32,455

That's No answer is an answer.

:

01:04:32,460 --> 01:04:32,640

Yeah.

:

01:04:33,090 --> 01:04:39,240

, and I also, I always feel nervous

about getting into conversations

:

01:04:39,240 --> 01:04:45,270

on social media that will require

many, many, many follow up.

:

01:04:45,300 --> 01:04:45,360

Yeah.

:

01:04:46,440 --> 01:04:49,650

That, that is sort of just like, I'm

like, well, I don't know what my energy

:

01:04:49,650 --> 01:04:53,130

level is gonna be like tomorrow when I

need to post part two and like mm-hmm.

:

01:04:53,305 --> 01:04:55,230

It feels like a slippery slope.

:

01:04:55,230 --> 01:04:57,390

And anyway, I did see that.

:

01:04:58,635 --> 01:05:00,615

That energy starting to happen.

:

01:05:00,615 --> 01:05:03,945

And, and I mean, I felt it too.

:

01:05:03,945 --> 01:05:10,904

Like I was like, wait, like why aren't

we saying economic blackout corporations?

:

01:05:11,385 --> 01:05:11,535

Right.

:

01:05:11,535 --> 01:05:14,295

Go shop at your favorite small business.

:

01:05:14,325 --> 01:05:14,415

Yes.

:

01:05:14,415 --> 01:05:16,005

You know, why aren't we saying that?

:

01:05:16,365 --> 01:05:16,845

Yeah.

:

01:05:16,845 --> 01:05:22,035

Instead, you know, there's the,

it's, it's so interesting seeing how

:

01:05:22,035 --> 01:05:24,975

other small businesses all across the

country, all across the world Yeah.

:

01:05:25,035 --> 01:05:26,385

Respond to things like that.

:

01:05:26,565 --> 01:05:30,525

But I always take a step back and

err on the side of caution from

:

01:05:30,525 --> 01:05:32,615

anything that sounds, performative.

:

01:05:32,645 --> 01:05:33,575

Same, desperate.

:

01:05:33,815 --> 01:05:33,875

Yeah.

:

01:05:34,055 --> 01:05:35,285

Pushy, salesy.

:

01:05:35,585 --> 01:05:38,555

, there's one business who I'm not gonna

name, I wonder if you know who they are,

:

01:05:38,715 --> 01:05:45,045

, but their Instagram lately has been so

aggressive with like, you know, if we

:

01:05:45,045 --> 01:05:49,325

survive, like it's basically, their,

like yelling at their community to support

:

01:05:49,325 --> 01:05:51,215

them more so that they can survive.

:

01:05:51,215 --> 01:05:52,925

And it's like if your

business can't survive.

:

01:05:53,330 --> 01:05:55,085

You don't have a good business

model, , you shouldn't have

:

01:05:55,085 --> 01:05:56,205

to bully your customers.

:

01:05:56,205 --> 01:05:58,170

But it also doesn't give

people like confidence.

:

01:05:58,290 --> 01:05:58,350

No.

:

01:05:58,350 --> 01:05:58,885

Like, exactly.

:

01:05:58,890 --> 01:06:02,220

And I'm not saying that

you should pretend either.

:

01:06:02,250 --> 01:06:03,390

I think it's a tight rope.

:

01:06:03,720 --> 01:06:05,070

I think you should, I think

you should pretend a little.

:

01:06:05,190 --> 01:06:08,640

I mean, a, a, a little maybe.

:

01:06:08,910 --> 01:06:15,540

And, but like, I do think that it places

like an emotional burden on your customer.

:

01:06:15,540 --> 01:06:15,541

Customer.

:

01:06:15,541 --> 01:06:15,605

On the customer.

:

01:06:15,610 --> 01:06:15,660

Yes.

:

01:06:15,660 --> 01:06:18,450

That isn't their responsibility 100%.

:

01:06:18,630 --> 01:06:22,710

So, like, you know, and that's not to

say, like when I say I don't think you

:

01:06:22,710 --> 01:06:26,880

should pretend, I mean, like, I don't

think you need to go on social media and

:

01:06:27,270 --> 01:06:32,550

present this like overly like rosy view

of what's going on in your business.

:

01:06:32,610 --> 01:06:32,760

For sure.

:

01:06:32,760 --> 01:06:32,910

Yeah.

:

01:06:33,330 --> 01:06:34,230

But

:

01:06:36,240 --> 01:06:40,650

I don't think it's really a good

idea to be like, I, I don't know.

:

01:06:40,650 --> 01:06:43,110

I also don't wanna like shit on like.

:

01:06:43,420 --> 01:06:47,800

The deeply emotional experience that

these business owners are having.

:

01:06:47,800 --> 01:06:51,040

And when you get to a place where

like everything is crumbling around

:

01:06:51,040 --> 01:06:53,560

you, like I have experienced Yeah.

:

01:06:53,740 --> 01:06:55,420

And you're like, holy shit.

:

01:06:55,420 --> 01:06:57,160

Like, everything's crumbling around me.

:

01:06:57,340 --> 01:06:58,540

No one knows this.

:

01:06:58,540 --> 01:07:02,350

Here I am having to like, pretend like

everything is fine, but actually I am

:

01:07:02,350 --> 01:07:04,930

like freaking the fuck out every day.

:

01:07:04,930 --> 01:07:04,990

Yeah.

:

01:07:05,020 --> 01:07:07,900

And I kind of wanna talk about it.

:

01:07:07,900 --> 01:07:12,010

'cause it seems like people actually

really like transparency and they like

:

01:07:12,010 --> 01:07:18,010

to feel connected to the business and

know what's going on, and they do wanna

:

01:07:18,010 --> 01:07:20,111

support you when you need it and mm-hmm.

:

01:07:20,265 --> 01:07:21,160

All of these things.

:

01:07:21,160 --> 01:07:25,210

But at the same time, like, I

don't know, I just think like.

:

01:07:26,154 --> 01:07:27,385

Reading the room.

:

01:07:27,535 --> 01:07:29,755

Like right now, everyone's freaked out.

:

01:07:29,845 --> 01:07:30,205

Yeah.

:

01:07:30,265 --> 01:07:33,925

Right now everyone is like, shit,

like things are so expensive.

:

01:07:33,925 --> 01:07:35,785

I have job insecurity.

:

01:07:35,995 --> 01:07:37,404

I don't know what's gonna happen.

:

01:07:37,404 --> 01:07:40,945

There's like a general

anxiety and a general malaise.

:

01:07:41,125 --> 01:07:44,154

Maybe not from like some percentage

of the population, but like

:

01:07:44,904 --> 01:07:46,345

for most of the people I know.

:

01:07:46,435 --> 01:07:46,645

Yeah.

:

01:07:46,675 --> 01:07:53,725

There is a general just l level of

anxiety and fear and worry, and I

:

01:07:53,725 --> 01:08:00,805

just don't, I, I don't think at this

moment in time spending too much

:

01:08:00,805 --> 01:08:08,245

time on social media trying to like,

it's not even like guilting them,

:

01:08:08,245 --> 01:08:10,375

but just like, I don't know, like.

:

01:08:12,955 --> 01:08:16,104

Like, have my sad story, like yes.

:

01:08:16,135 --> 01:08:19,285

To get people to like come, I just

don't, it just doesn't feel right.

:

01:08:19,285 --> 01:08:20,365

It doesn't feel good.

:

01:08:20,395 --> 01:08:20,845

I agree.

:

01:08:20,845 --> 01:08:21,595

It doesn't land.

:

01:08:21,805 --> 01:08:25,555

, and I think there's a difference

between like, my business burnt

:

01:08:25,555 --> 01:08:27,625

down, I could use some support.

:

01:08:27,685 --> 01:08:27,774

Yeah.

:

01:08:27,774 --> 01:08:29,335

And like, Hmm.

:

01:08:29,484 --> 01:08:31,645

Nobody bought a refillable

coconut oil today.

:

01:08:31,915 --> 01:08:33,475

Like, or whatever, you know?

:

01:08:35,305 --> 01:08:38,065

, And I think there's certain

conversations that, that you have

:

01:08:38,065 --> 01:08:39,295

with your business owner friends Yeah.

:

01:08:39,295 --> 01:08:40,495

Kind of behind the scenes, right?

:

01:08:40,495 --> 01:08:41,050

Yes, yes.

:

01:08:41,104 --> 01:08:44,194

, but I think like the, nobody

wants to vote for a losing team.

:

01:08:44,404 --> 01:08:46,444

Like, and you don't

wanna look like a loser.

:

01:08:46,475 --> 01:08:48,604

Well, like, literally, not like lame.

:

01:08:48,665 --> 01:08:54,965

You are providing a space that is

supposed to be, like, for me personally,

:

01:08:55,295 --> 01:09:01,295

I want to be providing a space that

hopefully feels like a respite for

:

01:09:01,295 --> 01:09:03,395

someone who is having a hard day.

:

01:09:03,425 --> 01:09:04,175

Correct.

:

01:09:04,175 --> 01:09:06,515

So if I am.

:

01:09:06,920 --> 01:09:12,680

Talking constantly about how hard it

is for me, you know, or how worried

:

01:09:12,680 --> 01:09:16,069

I am or how anxious I am about this

or that, or whatever it is that's

:

01:09:16,069 --> 01:09:17,899

going on at that point in time.

:

01:09:17,930 --> 01:09:18,050

Mm-hmm.

:

01:09:18,290 --> 01:09:23,149

I just feel like people can feel that

when they walk in, not just like on

:

01:09:23,149 --> 01:09:26,660

social media, not even talking about that,

but just like in person energetically.

:

01:09:26,660 --> 01:09:31,130

People can tell when you

enjoy being in your space.

:

01:09:31,130 --> 01:09:31,220

Yes.

:

01:09:31,220 --> 01:09:35,415

When you feel good there, when you're

just enjoying what you're doing or, yeah.

:

01:09:35,555 --> 01:09:38,660

Or, or trying to just like

look on the bright side.

:

01:09:38,660 --> 01:09:45,050

And I, I am not at all a proponent

of like toxic positivity or whatever.

:

01:09:45,050 --> 01:09:46,370

That's not what I mean.

:

01:09:46,399 --> 01:09:46,490

Yes.

:

01:09:46,859 --> 01:09:51,359

, but I think if you are thinking

about if you have a small retail

:

01:09:51,359 --> 01:09:53,309

shop and you are thinking about.

:

01:09:53,309 --> 01:09:58,050

What you're doing from the standpoint

of like, truly like this is your job.

:

01:09:58,080 --> 01:09:58,470

Mm-hmm.

:

01:09:58,890 --> 01:10:04,890

It is your job to create a space for this

person to be able to walk in and to like

:

01:10:05,220 --> 01:10:07,950

just take a load off for 20 minutes Yes.

:

01:10:07,950 --> 01:10:08,940

Or whatever.

:

01:10:09,059 --> 01:10:09,210

Yeah.

:

01:10:09,210 --> 01:10:11,765

I don't think they can do that when

they're like worried about you.

:

01:10:12,120 --> 01:10:12,540

I agree.

:

01:10:12,600 --> 01:10:15,600

It's not their responsibility to Yeah.

:

01:10:15,600 --> 01:10:15,601

Yeah.

:

01:10:15,690 --> 01:10:17,250

I, uh, yeah.

:

01:10:17,250 --> 01:10:19,650

I, it's, it's just interesting to observe.

:

01:10:19,920 --> 01:10:20,130

Yeah.

:

01:10:20,130 --> 01:10:23,490

And, but I learn a lot about like,

how I navigate business things by

:

01:10:23,490 --> 01:10:27,900

observing other people do things

the way I wouldn't, you know?

:

01:10:27,900 --> 01:10:27,960

Yeah.

:

01:10:27,990 --> 01:10:31,110

And maybe I, I wouldn't even have known

that like, Ooh, that doesn't vibe with

:

01:10:31,110 --> 01:10:32,580

me until I see someone else doing it.

:

01:10:32,580 --> 01:10:32,640

Yeah.

:

01:10:32,640 --> 01:10:33,480

And it's like, alright.

:

01:10:33,480 --> 01:10:34,140

Note to self.

:

01:10:34,140 --> 01:10:34,200

Yeah.

:

01:10:34,260 --> 01:10:34,620

Right.

:

01:10:34,650 --> 01:10:36,300

That's not for me.

:

01:10:36,330 --> 01:10:37,170

Yeah.

:

01:10:37,280 --> 01:10:37,940

Rebecca

:

01:10:37,970 --> 01:10:39,680

if you could go back in time Yes.

:

01:10:39,680 --> 01:10:45,410

And give young Rebecca who's about to

start her entrepreneurial journey, three

:

01:10:45,410 --> 01:10:48,230

pieces of advice, what would they be?

:

01:10:51,980 --> 01:10:57,530

Uh, I guess I would have to circle

back to the resilience piece

:

01:10:57,590 --> 01:11:01,370

and say like, you can do it.

:

01:11:01,370 --> 01:11:01,430

Yeah.

:

01:11:01,520 --> 01:11:03,620

Like, you got this, you can do it.

:

01:11:03,920 --> 01:11:05,930

A lot of crazy shit is gonna happen.

:

01:11:05,930 --> 01:11:09,200

Some fun stuff, some not

fun stuff, but , you got it.

:

01:11:09,200 --> 01:11:10,010

You can do it.

:

01:11:10,015 --> 01:11:10,135

Mm-hmm.

:

01:11:10,215 --> 01:11:15,530

Like, you, you, you hold the

vision, you're the engine.

:

01:11:15,530 --> 01:11:16,880

You can do it.

:

01:11:16,940 --> 01:11:17,240

Yeah.

:

01:11:17,270 --> 01:11:17,840

You know?

:

01:11:17,900 --> 01:11:18,140

Yeah.

:

01:11:18,140 --> 01:11:18,890

You just do it.

:

01:11:19,340 --> 01:11:22,070

, 'cause it's taken me a long time to feel.

:

01:11:23,180 --> 01:11:25,450

Even remotely, like, , okay.

:

01:11:25,450 --> 01:11:28,840

Like you, you do know, like

you, you know what you're doing.

:

01:11:28,870 --> 01:11:29,080

Yeah.

:

01:11:29,080 --> 01:11:32,740

You know, like it's, I mean, it

really shockingly a long time

:

01:11:32,740 --> 01:11:34,600

to really believe it, you know?

:

01:11:34,600 --> 01:11:34,601

Yeah.

:

01:11:34,606 --> 01:11:35,770

It's like a little imposter syndrome.

:

01:11:35,800 --> 01:11:36,820

Yeah, exactly.

:

01:11:36,820 --> 01:11:36,880

Yeah.

:

01:11:36,885 --> 01:11:40,150

Like you're playing pretend, and then

one day you're like, oh, like I got this.

:

01:11:40,180 --> 01:11:40,600

Yeah.

:

01:11:40,605 --> 01:11:40,715

Mm-hmm.

:

01:11:40,800 --> 01:11:41,470

You can do it.

:

01:11:41,840 --> 01:11:46,790

I probably number two would be

like, like lighten up a little.

:

01:11:46,850 --> 01:11:46,970

Yeah.

:

01:11:46,970 --> 01:11:48,440

Maybe in the beginning.

:

01:11:48,445 --> 01:11:48,605

Yeah.

:

01:11:48,740 --> 01:11:50,780

I am there now, thankfully.

:

01:11:51,180 --> 01:11:55,200

, but in the beginning I had

a lot of feelings around.

:

01:11:55,885 --> 01:11:57,684

, what was quote unquote professional.

:

01:11:57,684 --> 01:11:57,745

Yeah.

:

01:11:57,775 --> 01:12:01,825

And you know, how, how

it things should be done.

:

01:12:02,125 --> 01:12:06,545

I would be like really upset if someone

was like 10 minutes late opening the

:

01:12:06,545 --> 01:12:13,305

store, or like the thought of closing the

shop for any period of time to , go on a

:

01:12:13,305 --> 01:12:19,065

vacation or something, or to go to some

family thing that, my schedule conflicted

:

01:12:19,065 --> 01:12:21,285

with was like, I could never, yeah.

:

01:12:21,375 --> 01:12:27,375

Like I could never, you know, imagine

doing something like that and actually

:

01:12:27,375 --> 01:12:31,184

it really took COVID to break me of that.

:

01:12:31,215 --> 01:12:31,510

That makes sense.

:

01:12:31,515 --> 01:12:32,775

And I'm thankful for that.

:

01:12:32,775 --> 01:12:32,835

Yeah.

:

01:12:32,865 --> 01:12:39,645

Because Covid was the first time

that I really was able to fully

:

01:12:39,645 --> 01:12:42,075

exhale for the first time in.

:

01:12:42,645 --> 01:12:47,445

What is that, 12 or thir 13 ish, I

guess, to, so like in seven years?

:

01:12:47,445 --> 01:12:51,975

It was the first time that I ever, when

we were mandatory mandatorily closed.

:

01:12:52,005 --> 01:12:52,245

Yeah.

:

01:12:52,245 --> 01:12:55,605

It was the first time that I

was ever able to actually truly

:

01:12:55,965 --> 01:12:58,635

just stop spinning plates.

:

01:12:58,665 --> 01:12:58,755

Mm-hmm.

:

01:12:58,995 --> 01:13:02,625

And like, exhale a breath that it felt

like I'd been holding for seven years.

:

01:13:02,655 --> 01:13:03,015

Yeah.

:

01:13:03,285 --> 01:13:04,785

Um, that's an interesting time period.

:

01:13:04,995 --> 01:13:05,775

Yes.

:

01:13:05,865 --> 01:13:07,575

So like, yeah.

:

01:13:07,575 --> 01:13:13,395

Maybe like lighten up a little when it

comes to like, feeling so intense about

:

01:13:13,395 --> 01:13:15,105

like, doing everything so perfectly.

:

01:13:15,105 --> 01:13:15,375

Like Yeah.

:

01:13:15,375 --> 01:13:16,455

That definitely resonates with me.

:

01:13:16,575 --> 01:13:17,205

Yeah.

:

01:13:17,235 --> 01:13:17,925

Like very intense.

:

01:13:17,925 --> 01:13:18,434

Itll be fine.

:

01:13:18,945 --> 01:13:19,335

Yeah.

:

01:13:19,934 --> 01:13:23,895

Um, and let's see, number three.

:

01:13:23,945 --> 01:13:28,565

It's so hard to, it's so hard because

lots of things are pinging around in

:

01:13:28,565 --> 01:13:33,845

my mind, but so many of those things

are like lessons that I'm grateful for.

:

01:13:33,845 --> 01:13:35,135

So I don't know that I would like.

:

01:13:35,540 --> 01:13:36,920

Want to change them.

:

01:13:37,040 --> 01:13:37,490

Yeah.

:

01:13:37,600 --> 01:13:37,870

Hmm.

:

01:13:37,930 --> 01:13:38,800

Well, maybe that's it.

:

01:13:38,860 --> 01:13:42,130

Like, maybe that's number three

is that you're gonna learn

:

01:13:42,130 --> 01:13:43,360

lessons throughout the experience.

:

01:13:43,360 --> 01:13:43,630

Yeah.

:

01:13:43,840 --> 01:13:45,820

That may feel hard or scary or whatever.

:

01:13:45,820 --> 01:13:45,880

Yeah.

:

01:13:45,910 --> 01:13:49,870

But they're actually there to guide you.

:

01:13:49,900 --> 01:13:50,559

Yeah.

:

01:13:50,740 --> 01:13:51,340

On your path.

:

01:13:51,400 --> 01:13:51,940

Yeah.

:

01:13:51,940 --> 01:13:52,570

Like, yes.

:

01:13:52,570 --> 01:13:54,425

Stay open, maybe, you know?

:

01:13:54,430 --> 01:13:54,820

Yeah.

:

01:13:54,880 --> 01:13:55,360

Yeah.

:

01:13:55,360 --> 01:13:57,640

Just stay open to the experience.

:

01:13:57,700 --> 01:13:57,940

Okay.

:

01:13:57,940 --> 01:14:01,120

Whatever is coming is coming.

:

01:14:01,150 --> 01:14:01,210

Yeah.

:

01:14:01,325 --> 01:14:03,985

And just be open, you know?

:

01:14:04,025 --> 01:14:04,900

I think that's so great.

:

01:14:04,900 --> 01:14:08,230

So number one is to, believe in yourself.

:

01:14:08,230 --> 01:14:08,650

You got it.

:

01:14:08,650 --> 01:14:09,615

Number one, believe in yourself.

:

01:14:09,615 --> 01:14:10,600

Got you're, you're resilient.

:

01:14:10,809 --> 01:14:11,290

You got it?

:

01:14:11,350 --> 01:14:11,710

Yes.

:

01:14:11,710 --> 01:14:13,180

Number two, lighten up.

:

01:14:13,180 --> 01:14:14,110

Lighten up a little.

:

01:14:14,380 --> 01:14:14,680

Number three.

:

01:14:14,680 --> 01:14:14,950

Have fun.

:

01:14:14,955 --> 01:14:15,055

Fun.

:

01:14:15,059 --> 01:14:15,850

This supposed to be fun.

:

01:14:15,880 --> 01:14:16,300

Yeah.

:

01:14:16,300 --> 01:14:16,600

It's so good.

:

01:14:17,920 --> 01:14:19,809

Uh, and number three, trust the process.

:

01:14:19,840 --> 01:14:20,050

Yeah.

:

01:14:20,050 --> 01:14:20,650

Trust the process.

:

01:14:20,650 --> 01:14:21,010

Totally.

:

01:14:21,040 --> 01:14:21,100

Yeah.

:

01:14:21,100 --> 01:14:21,640

Okay.

:

01:14:21,645 --> 01:14:21,895

Mm-hmm.

:

01:14:22,090 --> 01:14:22,630

Okay.

:

01:14:22,630 --> 01:14:26,260

Let go of the reigns a little bit,

which maybe goes with two a little Yeah.

:

01:14:26,260 --> 01:14:27,550

But is slightly different.

:

01:14:27,550 --> 01:14:27,790

Yeah.

:

01:14:27,790 --> 01:14:28,780

Trust the process.

:

01:14:28,780 --> 01:14:29,095

It's slightly different.

:

01:14:29,170 --> 01:14:29,380

Yeah.

:

01:14:29,620 --> 01:14:29,980

Yeah.

:

01:14:30,415 --> 01:14:31,434

I like that a lot.

:

01:14:31,555 --> 01:14:31,945

Oh man.

:

01:14:31,945 --> 01:14:32,035

Yeah.

:

01:14:32,095 --> 01:14:32,605

Okay.

:

01:14:32,895 --> 01:14:35,985

. Rebecca, thank you so

much for your time today.

:

01:14:36,135 --> 01:14:36,434

Thanks me.

:

01:14:36,495 --> 01:14:41,385

, as a treat, Rebecca is offering Clover

Club listeners, 15% off at Youngblood

:

01:14:41,385 --> 01:14:43,905

using Code Clover, friend all caps.

:

01:14:43,995 --> 01:14:44,805

Uh, yeah.

:

01:14:44,805 --> 01:14:46,665

I actually don't know

if it matters, but yeah.

:

01:14:46,665 --> 01:14:46,666

Okay.

:

01:14:46,671 --> 01:14:46,680

Yeah.

:

01:14:47,145 --> 01:14:49,184

Clover Friend, if it

doesn't work, capitalize it.

:

01:14:49,184 --> 01:14:49,305

Yeah.

:

01:14:49,485 --> 01:14:53,835

Um, and as always, listeners

get 15% off@hawkinsandclover.com

:

01:14:53,885 --> 01:14:55,895

, with promo code, Clover Club, all caps.

:

01:14:56,195 --> 01:15:00,495

Um, and I will link, , youngbloods

website and you should definitely

:

01:15:00,495 --> 01:15:01,515

check them out in person.

:

01:15:01,575 --> 01:15:02,775

Beautiful store.

:

01:15:03,105 --> 01:15:06,915

, and yeah, follow us on

social media Shop local.

:

01:15:07,245 --> 01:15:07,425

Yes.

:

01:15:07,605 --> 01:15:09,765

And uh, , Rebecca, thank

you so much for your time.

:

01:15:09,825 --> 01:15:10,755

Thank you so much.

:

01:15:10,760 --> 01:15:11,475

Thanks for having me.

:

01:15:11,475 --> 01:15:12,105

It was so fun.

:

01:15:12,105 --> 01:15:13,095

The pleasure was mine.

:

01:15:13,155 --> 01:15:13,215

Yay.

:

01:15:13,275 --> 01:15:14,715

All right, we will hear you next time.

:

01:15:14,715 --> 01:15:15,105

Goodbye.

:

01:15:15,105 --> 01:15:15,165

Bye.

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About the Podcast

Clover Club
Curious conversations and stories intended to make you laugh and learn.
As a shop owner and hair stylist with an impressive number of stamps on her passport, Erika Audrey has heard or experienced it all. And she's ready to share. These real life conversations and stories will make you laugh, cry, and gasp- sometimes in the same episode! Join Erika Audrey straight from Atlanta gift shop Hawkins & Clover. Welcome to Clover Club.

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About your host

Profile picture for Erika Audrey

Erika Audrey

Erika Audrey, a luminous presence hailing from the vibrant city of Atlanta, Georgia, is not your ordinary hairstylist and boutique owner. With a zest for life that's as contagious as her laughter, Erika is poised to take the podcasting world by storm as she embarks on her latest venture.

Launching her debut podcast is a natural extension of Erika's multifaceted personality. With an uncanny ability to seamlessly weave humor into her conversations, Erika's laughter-inducing anecdotes and razor-sharp wit are bound to captivate listeners. Her intelligence shines through as she tackles a diverse range of topics, proving that beneath the laughter lies substance and insight.