Episode 38

Amy's Aviary

Published on: 3rd December, 2024

In this episode, Erika sits down with Amy Bransford, owner of Aviary Beauty, to talk about the ups and downs of being a small business owner. From weird client stories to the challenges of running a boutique business, we cover it all with honesty and a few laughs.

Note: This episode was recorded before the election.

Tune in for a candid conversation about entrepreneurship, creativity, and the unexpected moments that make it all worthwhile.

Shop Hawkins & Clover here

Visit Aviary here

Explore Invest Atlanta here

Transcript
Speaker:

Welcome to Clover Club.

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I am so excited to be joined today by

Amy Lavelle Bransford, owner of Aviary.

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Amy, hello.

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Hi.

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How are you?

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I'm great.

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Everybody.

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podcast.

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She's not nervous at all.

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She's cool, calm, and collected.

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, Amy, you and I met.

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But for the first time, I think

like well over a decade ago.

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It feels like, I mean, you, you said that

your, your salon is just 12 and mine's 15.

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So it was somewhere around there.

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I started hearing about you from several

of my clients that were coming here for

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hair services coming to me for facials.

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And so after a while, when you hear about

a female or any business owner, several

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times from several different clients, it.

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It compels me to want to reach out

because I already feel like we're

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friends that haven't hung out yet.

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I feel the exact same way.

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, and I remember, God, so

you just had your 15th.

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So this must have been

like 13 to 15 years ago.

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You had a jewelry party

at your first location.

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And I went with a friend of mine to that.

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And I think that's the very first

time I had heard about aviary and

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it was so cute and so fabulous.

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And I had the best time.

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And yeah, I feel like ever since we've

kind of been like virtually connected

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or like certain degrees of separations.

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Like Atlantans are, but it's,

it's very exciting to have you

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up here recording with me today.

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Thanks for having me.

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Oh, the pleasure is absolutely mine.

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, so Amy, will you kind of briefly share

with our listeners what aviary is?

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Yes.

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So, , like you said, we just had our 15th

year in business, um, aviary, beauty and

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wellness, as we are known, we do hair

services and also skincare services.

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I think we're.

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both.

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But I am an esthetician.

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So, , we have been, , gifted with a

lot of best of Atlanta, best of city,

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uh, awards for our facial services.

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So I think that that's

really what we're known for.

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, locally, I have a location in old

fourth ward, which is called Right on

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the belt line and then, uh, three years

ago opened a location right around

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the corner here in, uh, Summerhill.

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So adjacent to Grant Park.

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Yes.

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And fun fact, I looked at that location.

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I did amazing.

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Yeah, I used to have the

worst landlord ever here.

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And I was, Up for renewal three years

ago, and I was like, I got to make a move.

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, but then it turns out the guy that

owned this place was like a fraud

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and a felon and got taken to court

and had to give up the property.

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So now we have new ownership and new

property managers and it's much better.

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Wow.

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So I, and I had a meeting

with your landlord, so it

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sounds like I dodged a bullet.

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You could have a date.

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Um, but, uh, so I am aware who was

here, but yeah, I think, you know,

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trying to be a small business and

negotiate with, um, It's like a David

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and Goliath situation with the landlords.

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Well, it's crazy.

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And I like one thing about this podcast,

like I was explaining to Amy before

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we started recording is it's really

important to me to give examples of, uh,

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not only female owned small businesses,

but, you know, heavily female owned

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small businesses, and just kind of like

being very real with y'all about the

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realities of, uh, What it takes and

what is involved with owning a small

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business and these landlords they love

saying like, oh my god We support local.

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We love small businesses as long as you

can afford fifty dollars a square foot

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and like just like ruthless , and it's

it's really tough like you have to have

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a broker that advocates for you and

Even then I mean, it's it's It's tough.

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Yeah.

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It's tough.

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So, had you, were you looking

at a space in this building?

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No, I was being courted for the Larkin.

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Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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But their office was in here.

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Yes.

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So, they brought us, brought me

in, , and it was interesting.

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, meeting with a lot of different spaces.

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Ponce City Market.

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I did the same thing.

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And um, it was interesting at the time,

they, it wasn't, we didn't know what

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Ponce City Market was going to be.

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And so when they brought me in,

it's kind of like, it's like dating.

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Like they were saying all the.

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Yes.

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The right words and, and the red

flags weren't really presenting.

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And, you know, they were like over here

is where we're going to have the makers

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and the, you know, the maker's market.

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And, you know, this is going to

be a little tiny coffee shop.

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And then now we know it's

anthropology and pottery barn.

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There's no business like ours

that would survive in there.

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Correct.

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, uh, one of my.

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Like, in my gut during the court trip

with Ponce City Market, I was like,

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something is off and I shouldn't do this.

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But they do such a good job of inviting

you up to their swank offices, telling you

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you're gonna make, you know The gift bag.

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Oh, yeah.

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Like, you're just like,

I mean, I can do this.

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, but the space that they wanted

to put me in, , some construction

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is now going on across from it.

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And I had asked them, like, well, I know

you're building these new towers here.

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Um.

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Isn't that going to impede with

like visibility and foot traffic

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and parking and all of that?

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And they're like, no.

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And then I've intentionally over the

year or two have been driving by and

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it's like, you can't even see it.

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It's like, they just literally lied.

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And so I'm like, Jesus, I'm

so glad I did not do it.

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, you've watched over time, like the

little small businesses just kind of.

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Try and then leave.

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, And it's not, I mean, I think even

my experience, cause there was

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a transition with the landlord

on Georgia Avenue as well.

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And so when I went in,

it was a guy, right?

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And that's what you want as a

small business owner to think,

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okay, I'm going to have a landlord.

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It's going to be a guy and a

human and not like a Uh, company.

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Yeah.

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Um, and yeah, now anytime there is

an issue or a concern, it's like a,

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you know, you're just being gaslit.

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A hundred percent.

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A hundred percent.

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They're like, as long as that rent

check clears, that's all we care about.

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Um, it is crazy, but okay.

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So that's funny.

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We've both looked at the same space.

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, You did a great job with your build out.

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It is absolutely stunning.

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Thank you.

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, what's your Instagram?

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It's at Aviary.

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At Aviary.

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Okay.

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It's A V I A R Y.

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Okay.

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Y'all have to follow her and

just like look at, like, she

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just has a great aesthetic.

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Thank you.

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People need to see.

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, so the thing that kind of, , kickstarted

this particular episode, Amy,

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was, uh, you A funny little thing

happened with the worst client ever

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and you posted about it in a way

that not all business owners would.

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And, uh, I got in your comments and I

always commend people for being authentic,

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honest, and transparent and real.

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And you were like, you want

to do a podcast about it?

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And I was like, oh, yeah.

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Fuck yes.

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So Amy, will you tell us what happened?

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And I you know, I say like

the worst client in the world.

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I Love our clientele and you know what

it's like I mean going to work is like

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getting to host your best friends all day

Yeah, so every once in a while one ekes

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their way in and And causes a big ruckus

and you're just like, what just happened?

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And that's what happened in this case.

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, this client had been in

previously for a haircut.

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And she came back for a blonding service

and she was platinum, but she had many

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months of regrowth and it was very dark.

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And the stylist was very clear about

what the process was going to take.

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Um, when she got to the checkout,

she started to make a lot of noise

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about what she was being charged.

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And she was like, but I just

came in for a single process.

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And I don't, you know,

cause you're a hairstylist.

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I've been doing this for a long time.

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Yeah.

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Sometimes clients don't understand

the difference between a bleach

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and tone in a single process.

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But in this case, it was made very

clear, you booked the wrong service

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and we're going to change it.

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And that's what happened.

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So at the checkout, she saw, it

should have been like 150 or whatever.

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And it's like, No, absolutely not.

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Um, so she, not only did she make

a lot of noise in the space at the

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time, , and it was starting to get

to the point, escalate to the point

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where it was becoming uncomfortable

for other people in the room.

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And so my assistant, , manager at

the time was really just trying

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to diffuse the situation, like,

go ahead and tap your card here.

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Bye.

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And, um, so she, , went home, , then

DM'd me on Instagram, you know, 10,

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000 word DM, , follows that up with

email, , threatening, you know, I'm

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going to post these doctored photos.

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I mean, it's kind of crazy what we

have to deal with people face tuning

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their photos and then threatening to

throw them online if you don't get

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them a refund and I don't give refunds.

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, I, I don't, I don't believe, I

mean, You know, if we did something

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wrong, I'm accountable as hell.

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But yeah, exactly.

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Come back in.

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We'll, you know, we'll retone

your hair, recut it, whatever.

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But, , but refunds, they don't

really exist in, in our world.

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And you certainly can't threaten for them.

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Yeah, correct.

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Yeah.

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It's not how we make friends.

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No.

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Well, what happened with this particular

client is, , Um, she was in my salon

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and so I had all this back and forth.

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She had like, you know, written the Yelp

review that she threatened to, , she

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actually reported me to the better

business bureau, which I was like, what?

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I mean, 15 years never had

anything like this happen.

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, but she moved to New York

city the following week.

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And so after my interactions

with her, I was like, okay, I'm

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never going to see her again.

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Um, A month goes by and I see

her showing up on Tik Tok.

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She's starting to trend because she

got a alleged bad haircut at a salon.

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She got a lot of traction for that.

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And then she goes the following week

into a salon there for a blonding service

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and basically does the same thing.

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And so I felt so compelled to reach

out to the owner of that salon and

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say, Hey, I just want you to know that.

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These shenanigans just happened in

my place of business in Atlanta.

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And so she asked me if I would share

that testimonial, , which I felt

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really compelled to do because I

could just tell how shaken she was.

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And that's the thing is, you know, when

you care so much about your business and

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you care about the customer experience

and you care about how they feel when not

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only when they're with you, but when they

leave the salon, cause that's what we do,

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we're like, you know, giving people, you

know, beautification treatments and, you

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know, helping them be , their best selves.

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And, , and so I could just tell she had

been really shook by, , you know, having

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this one person try and tear her down.

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It's crazy.

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So, uh, We see that this

girl has a track record.

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She's stupid enough to post it online.

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, and then your response was great

because you have the fucking receipts

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and you filmed a video of yourself

and like behind you, it's like, like

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that, the, that you placed a video.

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You shared the message that she sent you,

like all of your interactions, and I love

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that because you can't hide behind that.

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It's just like, here's

what literally happened.

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Well, and I'll say, uh, 15

years of being a business owner,

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there's a lesson in there.

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Do not delete anything.

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I have.

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Yeah.

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I have a folder on my computer

where I just pack that stuff away

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because you don't know, you know,

is it going to be six months later?

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Is it going to be a month later, you

know, but are, is somebody going to dig

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into their well and try and tear you

down either online, , you know, so it,

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it's, it's good to keep the receipts.

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Yeah.

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I agree.

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. Can I tell you my version

of a crazy story like that?

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, I, this is pre pandemic.

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Um, so this must have been And this,

this circles back to keep the receipts,

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which is what made me think of this.

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, so this must've been 2018 ish.

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Um, I had a new client come in.

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She was a trans girl, uh, and a

dancer of the night and, uh, this

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girl, and I'm very sensitive to this.

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Had been transitioning and growing

out her hair, which is a very

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important part of that process.

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Mm-Hmm.

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. So I'm very sensitive to that.

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, so it was important to her to

keep as much length as possible.

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That being said, she

had been henna her hair.

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Oh dear.

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. . Yeah.

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Red flag.

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Yeah.

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If you know what that means,

you already are like, oh shit.

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, so she'd been Henning her hair for a wa

for years and then had maybe six to eight

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inches of regrowth of just natural hair.

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On that.

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And so I had told her like, all

right, listen, your haircut is

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going to be directly dependent on

like where that line of henna is.

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Oh, sorry.

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I left out an important part.

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She wants to be blonde as

she can be in one session.

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Right.

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So I'm just like, I'm

going to make you blonde.

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But like I, and again, with.

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know, like what you need to get

ahead of and how to mitigate these

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things before they're even an issue.

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And so I went into extreme detail

about how Hannah is a metallic dye.

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When you combine a metallic dye

with an oxidative, like, here's what

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happens, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

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, and she's like, okay, totally cool.

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Love it.

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Like, let's, I just want to be blonde.

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I'm like, all right, girl, I got you.

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So I left the majority of her

hair to a beautiful blonde.

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The last, four or five

inches, You Turquoise.

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Like, and I've never seen that with Henna

before, but that is the thing with Henna

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is you don't know how it's going to look.

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It's a total wild card.

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It's a total wild card.

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, and I believe she had waved a test

strand too, but we knew a good haircut

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was going to be part of this anyway.

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So I was like, we'll just let that be

our, that'll be our line of where we cut.

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So I've got her shampooed and toned and

like everything looks great other than

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those last couple inches I bring her back

to the chair and i'm like hey like your

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hair did great like this is how much we

need to remove But like you're still gonna

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have a lot of length and she was like, I

don't want to cut it and I was like, whoa

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Like I can't send you out of here with

like these weird and it wasn't like a

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good turquoise teal It was obviously ugly.

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Uh, it looked like mossy swampy like

it was horrible and I was like I can't

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let you leave here You Knowing I'm

the one that did this to you with your

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ends looking at that and she was like I

work in the dark No one's gonna see it.

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I don't want to lose the length and I

was just like, ah And we have this back

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and forth and basically kind of I was

like you just can't tell anybody I did

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your hair like if you're Not gonna let

me cut it then I guess I can't force

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you but like I I can't recommend Enough

against not leaving with this and she

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was adamant and I was like, okay and off

she went so Two years later, we're in

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a pandemic two years, two years later.

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Um, uh, two ish years.

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Like I think this was, cause if this

is well before the pandemic, this

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service, I forgot this chick existed.

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, uh, cause she didn't come back.

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She was like one of those

random kind of one off jump ins.

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I don't even want it done, want it done.

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, uh, so, uh, I see that I got a

one star review on Yelp and, uh,

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that is not something I'm used to.

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And so I was like, what the hell?

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And it's this girl.

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And she left me this one star.

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Crazy review with like a wild

picture and like all of it.

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I was like reading it like

Are we in the twilight zone?

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Like, what is happening?

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And so I called her and I was just

like, Hey, I'm like really surprised

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to hear or to read this review.

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Like, and why did you wait years

until we were in a pandemic?

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And my business has been shut down for

three months to leave a one star, like.

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Are you kidding me right now?

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, and so I wish that I had had like in

writing something from that service

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because I didn't have those receipts.

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And basically I just left as nice of

a reply as I could on the Yelp review.

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It's still up there.

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Cause I don't take that shit down.

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, I think if you read between the lines,

reading that review, you can tell.

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I think most people know, , when you

have a five star business and there's

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of what, there's nothing in between.

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There's no two star, three

star, either five or one.

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Yeah.

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They know what's going on.

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You like to think so.

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You think so.

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I mean, my, I, there's

a handful in mind too.

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Like you said, you can't

get people to pull.

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I've had.

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People who have never stepped foot in

my business, leave a one star review.

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And I think in this one case,

it was someone who had booked an

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appointment, , herself online.

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, when you do that, you have to

agree to the cancellation policy.

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, you're reminded of the cancellation

policy multiple times via, um, text

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message, , email, you're getting

a phone call from the front desk.

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Desk reminding you we're at the 48 hour

mark, you need to change anything now.

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It's the time to do it without penalty.

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She just didn't come to her appointment.

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And so we always, I have a rule.

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If somebody no shows, we call them because

I want to lead with is everything okay.

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Sure.

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, and.

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Um, at the end of the day, if we

haven't heard back, we charge them

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and that's what happened in this case.

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And she called the next day.

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I rate, I mean, she went off on

the person working the desk that

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day and asked to speak to me.

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And so I go, I'd love to write exactly.

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And so I'm like, okay, I don't think

I need to, cause we've already been,

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you know, nothing's going to change.

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Yeah.

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Um, and really it just makes it

more awkward because here I am

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having to like regurgitate it.

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All the information that's

already been shared with you.

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And I'm like, I'm sorry, but

like, where do you not get

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charged if you don't show up?

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And it's so rude.

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Well, it's just a complete lack of

respect for the service provider and

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they don't care that that's two, three

hours or whatever of their time that

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they're not being compensated for then.

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And it's just like, I don't think most

even realize like it's our livelihood.

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And so, you know, if you went to your

job and you're paying salary and then

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somebody said like, Oh, I'm just going

to dock your pay this week, so you're

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going to get maybe half as much.

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I mean, you wouldn't like that.

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No, absolutely not.

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, I'm, people know me that are my clients,

I'm ruthless with the cancellation fee.

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Because it only takes one time to

see, oh, that's not a fluffy policy,

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and there, it doesn't happen again.

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But if, you know what I mean,

like you just kind of have to,

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you know what's really great?

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Like the other day we had someone who

same day couldn't make their appointment.

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They had multiple services booked.

387

:

It was like a hair service and a brow.

388

:

And they offered to pay before they

even, they called and they said, I'm so

389

:

sorry, I'm not going to make it today.

390

:

I just want to make sure that

you have the right card on file.

391

:

Yes.

392

:

I respect the hell out of that.

393

:

All day.

394

:

And like, give me that client.

395

:

You can be as much of a mess when it comes

to the schedule as you need to be, as

396

:

long as we're on the same page about that.

397

:

Yes.

398

:

And those are the clients too, where

it's like, if they need, like I've

399

:

had people the morning of their

appointment be like, I'm so sorry, but

400

:

like work isn't plodding, da da da da.

401

:

Let me know if you need my

card or if you have it on file.

402

:

I'm going to go to my wait list and

I'm going to do everything I can to

403

:

fill that time and be like, I got you.

404

:

You're good.

405

:

, but if they showed you respect,

if they need wiggle room or leeway

406

:

or anything like that, you're

like very happy to do whatever you

407

:

can to be accommodating to them.

408

:

It's a symbiotic thing.

409

:

It's also, , it, I'm sure you've

got stories about this too.

410

:

Like, I mean, we look in the post pandemic

world, we do have to be, you know,

411

:

careful about, you know, My kid's sick.

412

:

Yeah, I was on the way to my facial

and I got a call from the school and

413

:

at the end of the Day, I know you'd

rather be getting a facial than hanging

414

:

out with your for sure sick kid.

415

:

Yeah Absolutely.

416

:

Yes Can you think of what's the

craziest reason that someone's

417

:

had to cancel an appointment?

418

:

I can tell you I can tell you Immediately

I know the answer to this This goes

419

:

back to you're like we always call

first , so, years ago, another stylist

420

:

that was working here had a very regular,

like, pre booked for the year client,

421

:

, who didn't come to her appointment.

422

:

And uh, I jokingly was like,

charge her, um, and she's like,

423

:

well, let me call her first.

424

:

And I was like, well, yes, of

course, like, give her a call.

425

:

So she calls her, and the

girl's dad answers the phone.

426

:

And she's like, hey, you know, this is

so and so with so and so, I was just

427

:

calling to check on so and so, they had

an appointment, and da da da da, and he's

428

:

like, well, she's not gonna be making it.

429

:

And she's like, Okay, like, well,

we do have a, you know, 24 hour

430

:

cancellation policy, da da da.

431

:

She's dead!

432

:

We were like, I'm watching this phone

call happen, and I'm only seeing the

433

:

stylist's face, and her face just

drops, and she's like, I'm sorry, what?

434

:

And he's like, her boyfriend murdered her.

435

:

She had gone, her

boyfriend lived in Chicago.

436

:

She lived here in Atlanta.

437

:

She had gone to Chicago for the weekend

to see her boyfriend, and he pushed her

438

:

off the balcony, and she And then we were

trying to like, we're like, holy shit.

439

:

So we're like Googling it.

440

:

Apparently that happens all

the fucking time in Chicago.

441

:

We couldn't even figure

out which one was her.

442

:

There's like all of these

balcony deaths in Chicago.

443

:

And , so the stylist, , is like, Oh my

God, like, I'm so sorry to hear that.

444

:

Like, obviously, like, No charge.

445

:

Yeah, she was like, da, da, da.

446

:

Um, well, she didn't even say no charge.

447

:

She was like, I'm, I'm so sorry.

448

:

And she gets off the phone.

449

:

We like looked at each other and she

was like, I don't charge it, right?

450

:

And I was like, NO!

451

:

That's like the only reason to charge

and then make the phone call, because

452

:

then you have plausible deniability.

453

:

Oh, I had a similar thing.

454

:

I charged, yeah, I charged someone, , and

this is why I instilled the new policy

455

:

about waiting until the end of the day.

456

:

I charged someone and they were, you

know, Um, and she did, she was fine,

457

:

uh, and she did message me, uh, when she

got back home and she was like, I just

458

:

wanted you to know the reason I didn't

make my appointment with you is because

459

:

I was like, very, very sick in ICU.

460

:

So I did refund her.

461

:

Yeah.

462

:

You're like, I want to

upgrade to your next service.

463

:

Shit.

464

:

That is like the, okay, this kind

of brings me into like the next

465

:

segment I want to chat with you

about is just like, The insanity

466

:

that is being a business owner.

467

:

And, uh, we kind of talked about like

the whole journey of a business owner

468

:

is you start with what you think it's

going to be, and then it's just this arc

469

:

of untangling what it should be for you.

470

:

And I always say to my employees,

to anybody who asked me

471

:

about running a business is.

472

:

I'm a bit of a lion tamer when it comes

to like diffusing those, , clients and

473

:

they're not very many of them, but you

know, they do work their way and the

474

:

ones that are, you know, require a lot.

475

:

Um, and it's a really

weird skill to be good at.

476

:

Yes.

477

:

I never would have.

478

:

Thought, you know, when I was a

much younger business owner, that

479

:

that's where I would be today.

480

:

But, um, that's so much part of it.

481

:

Absolutely.

482

:

And, , yeah, like I said,

it's not, it doesn't happen.

483

:

It's like once a year, you

get like a fuzzy client.

484

:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

485

:

, , we luckily like.

486

:

I think I've done a great job

training people and like, it's

487

:

a very lovely type of thing.

488

:

So I'm, uh, I've kind of

intentionally insulated myself

489

:

from that as much as possible.

490

:

, but even like the other day we got a

one star review from a lady who said I

491

:

called and they were rude and I was like,

hi, thank you so much for your review.

492

:

We don't have a phone.

493

:

Like, I don't know, like, you probably,

we used to, like, you probably called

494

:

that number and whoever has that phone

now answered, but like, do you want

495

:

to like, maybe take this review down?

496

:

Because like, literally, I

have nothing to do with this.

497

:

, but at this point you just

realize, like, the show goes on.

498

:

So it's like, when you're a

new business owner and these

499

:

things happen, Oh, Absolutely.

500

:

The first time I got a bad review,

literally stared at the ceiling all night.

501

:

And then, you know, you're kind

of going through like, okay, well

502

:

I have to respond because that's

the culture that we live in.

503

:

For sure.

504

:

And so do I respond, you know,

do I, do I defend myself?

505

:

You know, do I, , Do I try to,

you know, defend, I mean, what,

506

:

I don't know how to handle it.

507

:

So I have found that a lot of times

people want to just feel validated

508

:

and listens to, and that to me is like

the most success that I ever have.

509

:

Um, then there's the ones that

you're, you know, they're all caps.

510

:

Review and I'm just like, well,

there's nothing I can do there.

511

:

Yeah.

512

:

Sorry.

513

:

There's nothing I can do here

514

:

Yeah, like I think it just sort of you

have to find like humor in it and take

515

:

it with a grain of salt And I also will

say over my I mean i've been working in

516

:

this industry for over 20 years 20 or so.

517

:

, I don't mind firing the client

if I don't, I sometimes won't

518

:

even let it get to that point.

519

:

It's so much easier when you've been

doing it for a while because in the

520

:

beginning you're like, I feel like

I need to keep every single client.

521

:

Totally.

522

:

You're still building and yes, absolutely.

523

:

I'm not afraid to fire a client either.

524

:

Yeah, absolutely.

525

:

Just like, Hey, I don't

think this is a good fit.

526

:

Like, and I'll give you

suggestions of where else to go.

527

:

Like I will fire you with the

biggest smile where you almost

528

:

wonder, like, did that just happen?

529

:

And like, yes, that just happened.

530

:

, but yeah, I just, I have no time for it.

531

:

I have no time for it.

532

:

And you're taking space out of my

work day that I could fill either

533

:

alone or with somebody that I enjoy.

534

:

So I'm curious, what are your,

, like what are your red flags?

535

:

I'm sure we have the same ones when

somebody sits down and has like their

536

:

consultations going like 20 minutes.

537

:

Okay.

538

:

That's immediately a red flag.

539

:

Um, I, so, okay, I don't really

take new clients anymore.

540

:

Again, I'm insulated from this, but

I would say any version of like,

541

:

no, one's ever been able to make

me happy before I'd be like, I can.

542

:

And then I realized, Oh,

this isn't a me problem.

543

:

This is all about you.

544

:

Like that's a big red flag.

545

:

, that's like dating a guy.

546

:

Who's like, you're not

like the other girls.

547

:

And it's like, yes, I am.

548

:

Yes, I am.

549

:

Um, uh, so that's a red flag.

550

:

, too much.

551

:

moving around of appointments, a red flag.

552

:

, and then just, I don't know, there's just

like an energy, you know what I mean?

553

:

Too much moving around period.

554

:

Yeah.

555

:

I'm thinking that back to the, the

one that I made the video because

556

:

that was an issue in my salon.

557

:

It was like, Can't sit in still throwing

your feet up on the counter, which is

558

:

like, girl, you are, I don't do that.

559

:

This is my place of business.

560

:

Yeah.

561

:

Throwing your feet up on it.

562

:

Do you know how many little

hairs are on the floor?

563

:

Even the second after I vacuumed,

like this is just not wild.

564

:

, yeah, I feel like there's just like an

energy and you know, people who like.

565

:

are never happy.

566

:

And then you realize it's not their hair.

567

:

They're never happy with

any aspect of their life.

568

:

Like they just are super negative.

569

:

And I've even had clients over

the years who are happy with my

570

:

services, but I realized that after

spending time with them, I feel low.

571

:

, cause they're just ewers and it's.

572

:

I don't want to surround myself with that.

573

:

I'll tell you, we had one recently,

I'm thinking this was a haircut client

574

:

and she came in, , with medium length

hair and wanted to get a French Bob.

575

:

And then in the middle of the

haircut decided she wanted a Pixie.

576

:

And this was a case for me as the

business owner to remind my hairstylist.

577

:

Don't do that.

578

:

Don't.

579

:

Don't.

580

:

Yeah.

581

:

Because it's never, ever.

582

:

It feels like an emotional decision.

583

:

Let's unpack that real quick.

584

:

I know.

585

:

I used, years ago, I stopped booking same

day color appointments for that reason.

586

:

Oh, that's smart.

587

:

Because I was like, did you go

through a breakup last night?

588

:

Right.

589

:

Right.

590

:

Oh my God.

591

:

, one thing, this is, this is the biggest

red flag now that I'm thinking about it.

592

:

I don't care.

593

:

What your husband likes or what

your boyfriend thinks is cool.

594

:

Like, I'd really love to do X, but

like my boyfriend really likes Y.

595

:

And I will always say like,

well, is he paying for it?

596

:

Is he like, even if he

is, it doesn't matter.

597

:

Um, but I'm just like,

what makes you happy?

598

:

Cause I just like, I'm kind of

immediately grossed out by that.

599

:

Cause I'm like, this is

not a level of control.

600

:

Any man should have over

a woman's aesthetic.

601

:

That's weird.

602

:

And I wonder if most people even realize

how influential their partners, sisters.

603

:

Friends.

604

:

I, we had a woman, , recently who she

came in to go blonder because she had a

605

:

significant amount of gray, which was the

right thing to do because she had said,

606

:

I really don't want to be coming in here

every four weeks for a root touch up.

607

:

And so the stylist said, let's do this.

608

:

And then she went home and her

sister said, Oh, I just think

609

:

it makes you look so much older.

610

:

I mean, here's the thing.

611

:

I'll undo that work.

612

:

But it's not for free.

613

:

Like that's a whole nother difference.

614

:

No, and this wasn't even a case of

like her asking for a redo at all.

615

:

Yeah, that, no.

616

:

But she got in her head about

it and then, uh, that's tough.

617

:

Yeah.

618

:

I, I did.

619

:

I wonder if you had this experience.

620

:

I had a handful of clients who took

advantage of the COVID gray grow out

621

:

and then kind of embrace the gray.

622

:

And then, uh, Almost, not all, but

the heavy majority of them have

623

:

gone back to coloring their hair.

624

:

And one of the main comments I got

was, , even if they like their gray, they

625

:

acknowledge it does make you look older.

626

:

Um, but they also share that they

weren't prepared for the way, the

627

:

difference in the way they're treated

when they're out in the world.

628

:

Um, yeah.

629

:

And I like, Hadn't thought about that.

630

:

No, I haven't.

631

:

I could see, especially for these

people who still are working in certain

632

:

professions where they're in front of

people and looks matter and all of that.

633

:

They were like, I, I'm not ready for this.

634

:

And like my face and hair do not,

aren't in alignment and the way

635

:

I'm getting treated is not it.

636

:

And so we went back to color.

637

:

Wow.

638

:

Did you have anything like that?

639

:

No.

640

:

, we did have some clients that were

embracing the gray, , but yeah, I

641

:

guess when you're saying that, I'm

thinking who they are and they're

642

:

all very, like, confident women.

643

:

And I think you would definitely have

to feel confident in order to do that.

644

:

Yeah.

645

:

. We were talking about

being a business owner.

646

:

Yes.

647

:

Um, it's putting out

fires, putting out fires.

648

:

I have a staff of 24 women and

one man, and I will often refer to

649

:

them as my adult daughters and son.

650

:

Yeah.

651

:

And do you, and does it fluctuate on any

given day if that's a compliment or not?

652

:

I always feel like it's a compliment

because I am a mother and a lot of , my

653

:

employees, they trust me with their,

see, they see me as a mother type, um,

654

:

and very much a mentor or maternal,

but I think they feel like they can

655

:

share things with me that they can't

even share with their own parents.

656

:

Yeah.

657

:

That's very flattering.

658

:

Yeah.

659

:

It's very flattering.

660

:

Yeah.

661

:

That's very cool.

662

:

, do you find, so we were talking

about, Maybe firing clients,

663

:

preemptively firing clients.

664

:

, what are your red flags with employees?

665

:

Do you know, in 15 years, I've

only had to let one person go.

666

:

Wow!

667

:

So you're either lucky as

hell or a great interviewer.

668

:

I think, I think, I think

it's the law of attraction.

669

:

I definitely know during an interview

whether it's going to work out.

670

:

And is that just sort of

like, you just know, like it's

671

:

an intuition type of thing?

672

:

One thing that I established

early on is I'm, this is me.

673

:

There's no Jekyll or

Hyde situation going on.

674

:

There's nothing deep and dark

lurking and I'm not just going

675

:

to show up one day and, you know.

676

:

You're fired or anything like that.

677

:

So, um, I, as a rule will not

hire anyone who I believe their

678

:

personality is stronger than mine.

679

:

And because I think that if somebody

came into my place and that's, you know,

680

:

this is a thing that happens with clients

too, that you have to fire is, , if

681

:

you come into my, my place of business,

that's like coming into my house.

682

:

And if you come into my house and

you're taking over and you know

683

:

what that Energy vampire is like,

yeah, it's not gonna work out.

684

:

Yes, that's so true and so simple and

it's a fine line because it's like

685

:

you do want staff that feels empowered

to share ideas and help the business

686

:

evolve, but there always should be

a little bit of a buffer between.

687

:

They have to love their place of business

as much as I do, because I can't be

688

:

there every we're open seven days a week.

689

:

Yeah.

690

:

You don't want to be there.

691

:

No, I don't want to be there.

692

:

And so they know that they're, I don't

want to say they're being watched.

693

:

It's not like that, but I care so

much about customer service that we

694

:

have automations that go out after

every appointment to the customer

695

:

that says, how do we do today?

696

:

And it's, it's great.

697

:

It's actually a safe space

for people to share when.

698

:

They didn't have the perfect experience.

699

:

And like I said, I'm accountable.

700

:

I, I want us to be perfect, but I'm

also aware enough to know that we're

701

:

not going to get it right every time.

702

:

And when you don't, if somebody, there

is a way to, you know, there's a way

703

:

for somebody to say like, Um, the

color's not off or it wasn't exactly,

704

:

the cut was not great or, you know,

and, and there's a communication

705

:

there that is, can be very open.

706

:

It doesn't have to be hide behind my

phone in all caps, telling all of Google.

707

:

Yes.

708

:

That's, that's a wild choice.

709

:

I think that like a good.

710

:

Example of how that should go is it all

happens behind the scenes and like the

711

:

internet and social media never know.

712

:

And then they're still your customer

and there's still respect there

713

:

because it's, you're dealing with

human beings and sometimes things

714

:

happen and that's just, is what it is.

715

:

Well, that's always the thing

that gets so amiss to me.

716

:

It's like, it is this, it's

a very intimate experience.

717

:

What we do, it's one on one and we spend a

Sometimes hours together during this time.

718

:

And then when you have that, and then

the person goes home and gets on their

719

:

laptop and, you know, write something

disparaging about your business.

720

:

I mean, it's, uh, it's hard

not to take it personally.

721

:

Yeah, absolutely.

722

:

Well, and especially with like

beauty and aesthetics, we're.

723

:

So in your personal space, we're literally

touching and there's not a lot of other,

724

:

you know, a pedicure with, that's an easy

one off situation, but like, there's not

725

:

a lot of other professional services that

require a hands on portion of the ride.

726

:

And it is kind of jarring to like.

727

:

No, it'd be like, I massaged

you three hours ago.

728

:

Why this made me think of my very

first week in aesthetic school.

729

:

, you know, of course

everybody there is, is new.

730

:

And most of us were making

a mid, like a career change.

731

:

, I'd already worked for 10

years in another industry.

732

:

And this girl, , she quit.

733

:

And on her last day of the first week

of school, she was like, I'm going

734

:

to I just don't think this is for me.

735

:

, I don't think I like people very much.

736

:

And I think about how much

though she saved herself.

737

:

Yeah.

738

:

How many people go all the

way through cosmetology?

739

:

One of them works in my front desk now.

740

:

She's a phenomenal manager.

741

:

She's so.

742

:

So good at making people feel welcome.

743

:

She said every day behind the chair

was like a panic attack for her.

744

:

And so, yeah, so, you know, but

she went all the way through

745

:

school and then assisted and then

worked, you know, in a couple of

746

:

salons before she figured that out.

747

:

Yeah.

748

:

You know, I think the beauty industry is

having like this reckoning right now and

749

:

social media has just completely changed.

750

:

And I mean, for me, I went

to school over 20 years ago,

751

:

their Instagram didn't exist.

752

:

Oh, there were two color services?

753

:

Yeah.

754

:

A single process and a highlight?

755

:

Yeah.

756

:

Like a partial highlight

and a full highlight.

757

:

There were three.

758

:

Three.

759

:

You know, there's like root smudges.

760

:

And a Yeah.

761

:

And hand painting and it's crazy.

762

:

And anybody, I remember I did a

lot of editorial work early in my

763

:

career and my portfolio were pictures

I printed and put into a leather

764

:

folio and brought with me on jobs.

765

:

I remember those.

766

:

You remember those?

767

:

Mm hmm.

768

:

And now with these phones, it's

like, you don't actually have to

769

:

be good or knowledgeable to, to

come off as a, as a professional.

770

:

You're like, oh, this is a filter.

771

:

Yeah.

772

:

By the way, she doesn't look like that.

773

:

Yes.

774

:

That's facetuned.

775

:

Yes, it's so wild.

776

:

, and so I think that there's

like this whole Group of new

777

:

cosmetologists and estheticians that

are like, I mean, I don't envy it.

778

:

I'm glad I'm not building right now

and I never take for granted the

779

:

fact that I'm past that stage of

things, but it is The internet man,

780

:

it's just it's just what I know.

781

:

I did think it was brilliant years a

few years ago when Kim Kardashian went

782

:

platinum and she and her hair stylist

did like a The full reveal of like every

783

:

stage and how long it took because I

think most people don't, they have no

784

:

idea that you can't achieve those results

with healthy hair in a single sitting.

785

:

That's correct.

786

:

isn't possible.

787

:

It's just not.

788

:

Yeah.

789

:

I always tell people, I'm like, you

can have pretty much anything you

790

:

want, but not everything you want.

791

:

So it's like, you want to be

platinum, I can get you platinum.

792

:

You want to be platinum

with waist length hair.

793

:

IDK.

794

:

Platinum pixie.

795

:

Exactly.

796

:

I got you all day long on this.

797

:

, so, okay.

798

:

You said that you were in a different

industry and then decided A decade

799

:

into that to make this pivot,

what was the industry before?

800

:

So I worked in house as a

publicist for record labels.

801

:

Oh, cool.

802

:

It was my dream job.

803

:

Yeah, that sounds great.

804

:

And I loved it.

805

:

I worked for almost 10 years for two

different record labels in Atlanta

806

:

and they both went out of business

and, , I always say like it, I was

807

:

never, I never went through a divorce.

808

:

, I imagine that dismantling

two small businesses in a row,

809

:

that's what that feels like.

810

:

And, , and it was hard and I did have

some opportunities to move to New York.

811

:

, and.

812

:

And I thought, I thought it was definitely

the time if I was going to move to

813

:

New York city to do it, but there was

something that was holding me back.

814

:

I was just, Oh no, I, I don't

want to move there and be broke.

815

:

Like I'm really,

816

:

I want to move there,

but I don't want to be.

817

:

So , anyway, I had a friend, I'm

very much like a big sister to me and

818

:

she had become an esthetician, like.

819

:

Five or 10 years before I went to school

and I just remember when she told me

820

:

what she was doing, I was like, Oh, that

sounds really peaceful and like chill.

821

:

And like, I didn't even know

that was a job people had.

822

:

So I went back to school.

823

:

I was 28 and, , I never thought

I would own the business.

824

:

I thought my dream was to work

in a spa and I very quickly at my

825

:

first job out of school, , Um, the

industry was so different back then.

826

:

It was like there were only

two types of skincare settings.

827

:

It was either like Zen with bamboo

shelves and a water feature or,

828

:

or white, like a clinical doctor.

829

:

Yeah.

830

:

And so my first job, I thought

I had made a terrible mistake.

831

:

I made 13, 000 my first year.

832

:

I can't take that to New York.

833

:

He loves to be like, remember you used

to spend more parking your car in Midtown

834

:

and you would make in commissions.

835

:

So that was a really, it was hard.

836

:

I, I quit cause I was pregnant and

I thought, well, it's not, I mean,

837

:

that's not worth going back to.

838

:

And, , It was also

different times back then.

839

:

I always tell you, I got into

skincare way before the crescendo.

840

:

I mean, I think the crescendo is still

crescendoing, if I'm being honest.

841

:

I mean, like there's like

new celebrity skincare lines.

842

:

Um, and I don't love all of it.

843

:

I don't love that part, but it

has brought with all of that has

844

:

brought a lot of awareness to

how people care for themselves.

845

:

High schoolers have like

12 step skin care routines.

846

:

It's crazy.

847

:

That part is, well, I don't know.

848

:

I mean, that's, it's going to be

interesting to see how the 12 year olds

849

:

age, because if they all look like Bella

Hadid, you know, when they're fifties,

850

:

you know, maybe I'll be like, Hmm.

851

:

Turns out you did need that retinol.

852

:

Um, but yeah, so my first job, , I

thought it had made a terrible mistake.

853

:

I chose to stay home for

the first year with my son.

854

:

I thought maybe that's

what I should be doing.

855

:

Yeah.

856

:

, very quickly it was like this stay

at home mom thing is no, I can't.

857

:

I don't, I went to a couple of like mommy

and me play groups where I left crying.

858

:

Like what's wrong with me?

859

:

Yeah.

860

:

, so I decided to.

861

:

Start, uh, an aesthetics

practice in my house.

862

:

And you've been doing this a long time.

863

:

So I'm going to name check

something that only a select few

864

:

of your listeners will do, uh, no.

865

:

But when I started, there was a

thing called the daily candy candy.

866

:

Absolutely.

867

:

It was the best.

868

:

And it was before everybody was inundated

with emails and you would wake up in

869

:

the morning and there would be this.

870

:

200 word daily candy email in your inbox.

871

:

And it was always tipping you off to like

this cool, it was very female centric.

872

:

So, you know, that was

the target audience.

873

:

And I got written about in the

daily candy at the point where

874

:

this would make or break a new

boutique in town or a new business.

875

:

And so being written

about in the daily candy.

876

:

Made it so that I could not

work out of my house at all.

877

:

Yeah.

878

:

And so it, I found a brick and

mortar, which is my original,

879

:

, location in old fourth Ward.

880

:

That's awesome.

881

:

That's really scary.

882

:

Do you own that space?

883

:

I do.

884

:

Hell yeah.

885

:

Girl

886

:

. I do.

887

:

But it was really scary.

888

:

It was really scary at the time.

889

:

It's a huge deal.

890

:

Yeah.

891

:

Really.

892

:

, having to put the cart before the horse.

893

:

Mm-Hmm.

894

:

because I, Mm-Hmm.

895

:

. Like you, I was not, I

did not have a clientele.

896

:

I was starting with, I always say I had

three friends and I gave them all free

897

:

facials and I was like, please tell

everyone, you know, yeah, that's how

898

:

it starts from the ground up though.

899

:

And you have to invest in yourself.

900

:

Yep.

901

:

And I, but I, what I got to do is create

a work environment that spoke to me.

902

:

And so that Zen with the

water feature was not my vibe.

903

:

And I got to, I think one of the

things that the daily candy loved

904

:

is that I don't play spa music.

905

:

So I had like.

906

:

This is back in the day where you used to

have to put MP3s on your, on your iPod.

907

:

And so I would actually like

stay up at night and like make

908

:

playlists to play in my facials.

909

:

And , and so that was

something that resonated.

910

:

It was like, Oh, you know,

she can do whatever she wants.

911

:

And that's the thing.

912

:

You can do whatever you want.

913

:

If you own a business, you

can do whatever you want.

914

:

Yeah, absolutely.

915

:

, I think there's pros and cons

that come along with that, but

916

:

like I, I've spent the last.

917

:

20 something years of my career, just

like really fine tuning what I like

918

:

and what I don't like and being kind

of ruthless at like trimming away

919

:

the parts that do not bring me joy.

920

:

, and I, I'm.

921

:

I always say that I'm the

happiest I've ever been.

922

:

And I know like down the road,

I'll be even happier cause I'll

923

:

make some other adjustment.

924

:

, but you have to be ruthless.

925

:

It's also the wisdom.

926

:

It's so true.

927

:

And, and, and you don't, , or I

don't know, maybe some people do.

928

:

I didn't start.

929

:

with wisdom.

930

:

I am still learning every step of the way,

but I think the more that you learn, , the

931

:

processes and you rewrite them and you

go, Oh, you know, that wasn't working.

932

:

So let's do it a different

way next time that happens.

933

:

And then after a while, it's like,

Do you find too, like, I feel like I

934

:

learn my lessons shorter, shorter, like

small, like lesser and lesser amounts

935

:

of time, like I, there are things that

I spent years digging my heels in on

936

:

that now, if I could go back, I'd be

like, Oh, that's obviously not working.

937

:

Just don't do that.

938

:

, but at the time there's like

an emotional connection.

939

:

And like, I just, I

have to make this work.

940

:

But there's, there's some like social

media teams that I keep seeing ads and

941

:

they're like, it doesn't take six months

to know if your Instagram works or not.

942

:

And I'm like, that's true.

943

:

It is that simple.

944

:

Like if you're have been doing the

same business model for years and

945

:

it's not working, it doesn't work.

946

:

And just, you have to just like, yeah,

nobody should like be putting their rent

947

:

on their credit card to open a business.

948

:

And I know that that's.

949

:

for some small business owners,

but you know, I'd started small

950

:

and I'm still not that big really.

951

:

I mean, two locations, it's

not, I'm not corporate.

952

:

I don't have an HR department.

953

:

That's me on the HR department.

954

:

, but you know, I think, uh,

one thing I'll shout out.

955

:

Because I did have to learn this.

956

:

, when I opened my second location, it was

post pandemic and it was the first time,

957

:

, it's going to be crazy for me to admit

this, but when I started my business,

958

:

it was like a wing and a prayer, right?

959

:

I was just, I would be like, Oh,

I'll get this one product line.

960

:

Cause I can afford that.

961

:

And then after a year I'd

be like, Oh, I made money.

962

:

So I'll invest in a second product

line or a second piece of equipment.

963

:

I never had to.

964

:

Get someone else's money and, um, or

take an investor or anything like that.

965

:

That's scary to me.

966

:

Cause you kind of lose

a bit of your control.

967

:

Yeah.

968

:

And, , but when I opened the second

location, I knew that I was going

969

:

to have to go to a bank and I'd

never written a business plan.

970

:

I had never, , had to take out, A small

business loan, anything like that.

971

:

And so someone, , referred me to

a thing called the small business

972

:

development center and they have

offices in every County of the

973

:

state of Georgia and it's all free.

974

:

Oh, it's paid for by tax dollars.

975

:

And so when I had to write my

business plan, I worked with them

976

:

over the course of four years.

977

:

I don't know, six months or a

year, um, you can meet as much

978

:

as often as they, as you want.

979

:

So I, for a period there, I

was having weekly phone calls,

980

:

zoom meetings, cause it was.

981

:

The pandemic time.

982

:

So we're still doing that,

but, , they helped me.

983

:

I mean, they have all

kinds of marketing people.

984

:

They have, , analytics experts,

they have financial experts.

985

:

They, you know, they showed me that

they were like, look, in terms of the

986

:

content of your business plan, you

already have it, it's on your website.

987

:

You know, like you've got a bio, you've

got history, there's a story to tell.

988

:

There's photos.

989

:

And so we just need to make it marketable.

990

:

And, , and so we did that.

991

:

And so they helped me go to, , invest

Atlanta, gave me a 50, 000.

992

:

2 percent interest loan.

993

:

That's awesome.

994

:

I mean, that's another thing.

995

:

Like I didn't know that the first time

that you could go to the city of Atlanta

996

:

and that they have loan products that

are, they, especially historic areas.

997

:

I'm in two historic areas.

998

:

So I'm in Auburn Avenue.

999

:

And then on Georgia Avenue.

:

00:46:45,668 --> 00:46:49,768

And so there are SBA funds that

are set aside for businesses

:

00:46:49,768 --> 00:46:51,048

just like mine and yours.

:

00:46:51,138 --> 00:46:55,648

And, , it's not that hard to achieve it

if you know, to look for the right places.

:

00:46:55,648 --> 00:46:57,408

So that's super interesting.

:

00:46:57,418 --> 00:47:00,918

And I will link that in our show notes

for anybody who's ears also perked up.

:

00:47:01,178 --> 00:47:08,238

, I have always been very, uh,

hesitant to take in outside money.

:

00:47:08,538 --> 00:47:09,318

So I.

:

00:47:09,758 --> 00:47:10,738

I have no debt.

:

00:47:11,048 --> 00:47:13,758

Um, and yeah, exactly.

:

00:47:14,318 --> 00:47:16,918

But I've had like the Ponce New

Market, for example, I was like, I'm

:

00:47:16,918 --> 00:47:20,338

going to need a six figure loan to do

this build out and make this happen.

:

00:47:20,608 --> 00:47:23,908

And I started going down that

path and I'm like six, seven,

:

00:47:23,918 --> 00:47:24,758

eight, 9 percent interest.

:

00:47:24,758 --> 00:47:25,673

And I was like, Fuck that.

:

00:47:26,163 --> 00:47:28,693

Like, yeah, I just like, don't

want to be on the hook for that.

:

00:47:28,693 --> 00:47:29,893

I want to go on vacation.

:

00:47:30,143 --> 00:47:35,963

Um, and so I like hearing stories of

people who, uh, have had something

:

00:47:35,963 --> 00:47:39,533

like that, that for whatever reason

in their mind was kind of undesirable

:

00:47:39,533 --> 00:47:42,843

or unattainable, and then kind of

demystifying it and figuring out like,

:

00:47:43,113 --> 00:47:47,063

Oh, like these do literally exist for

businesses like yours and ours and there's

:

00:47:47,293 --> 00:47:49,063

nothing wrong with taking advantage of it.

:

00:47:49,063 --> 00:47:50,103

That's why they're there.

:

00:47:50,523 --> 00:47:52,163

That's fabulous to know.

:

00:47:52,213 --> 00:47:52,993

And 2%.

:

00:47:53,193 --> 00:47:53,993

Like, that's the thing.

:

00:47:53,993 --> 00:47:54,893

I was just like, I'm not taking anything.

:

00:47:54,913 --> 00:47:55,913

I won't buy a car for 8%.

:

00:47:55,913 --> 00:47:57,133

That's aggressive.

:

00:47:59,503 --> 00:47:59,913

Yeah.

:

00:48:00,533 --> 00:48:00,923

I know.

:

00:48:00,923 --> 00:48:02,633

I mean, I think that, what is 2%?

:

00:48:02,633 --> 00:48:04,743

It was like the 2, 000

in interest or something.

:

00:48:04,743 --> 00:48:05,173

Yeah.

:

00:48:05,173 --> 00:48:07,223

You're like, I got you.

:

00:48:08,743 --> 00:48:09,383

This I can do.

:

00:48:09,923 --> 00:48:10,723

Oh, that's awesome.

:

00:48:10,723 --> 00:48:10,813

That's awesome.

:

00:48:10,813 --> 00:48:12,533

So you've really.

:

00:48:13,733 --> 00:48:17,453

This is like the American dream because

you just started with something so organic

:

00:48:17,453 --> 00:48:19,413

and it just has evolved into something.

:

00:48:20,563 --> 00:48:23,453

Um, uh, like you said that you still

have control over, but it's expanded kind

:

00:48:23,453 --> 00:48:24,913

of like beautifully beneath your wings.

:

00:48:25,293 --> 00:48:26,013

Well, thank you.

:

00:48:26,013 --> 00:48:27,293

I'm glad it comes off like that.

:

00:48:28,053 --> 00:48:32,503

My, , my mom owned a clothing

boutique, so that's what I grew up in.

:

00:48:32,513 --> 00:48:38,698

So my, my parents, my dad was

like, The hot like musician

:

00:48:38,758 --> 00:48:40,258

in, was he a hot, hot musician?

:

00:48:40,318 --> 00:48:41,008

Yes.

:

00:48:41,038 --> 00:48:43,078

Uh, so I grew up in Macon, Georgia.

:

00:48:43,108 --> 00:48:43,348

Okay.

:

00:48:43,348 --> 00:48:44,428

In the seventies.

:

00:48:44,478 --> 00:48:49,878

, and my dad, he's still a musician,

but at the time he was, um, he was

:

00:48:49,878 --> 00:48:53,418

a session musician for Capricorn

Records, which was putting out

:

00:48:53,448 --> 00:48:55,098

music by the Allman Brother Band.

:

00:48:55,338 --> 00:48:55,818

Oh, cool.

:

00:48:55,818 --> 00:48:56,718

And so.

:

00:48:57,243 --> 00:48:59,523

He was like the hot keyboard player.

:

00:48:59,543 --> 00:49:04,523

And my mom was like the hot assistant

to the president of the record label.

:

00:49:04,963 --> 00:49:10,483

And so they started dating and

she opened a clothing store.

:

00:49:10,483 --> 00:49:14,273

It started out as like a vintage

clothing store slash art gallery.

:

00:49:14,723 --> 00:49:16,093

And she opened that when I was two.

:

00:49:16,093 --> 00:49:18,123

So I literally grew up in there.

:

00:49:18,143 --> 00:49:23,753

And then, , once the seventies moved on,

she got into like eighties high fashion,

:

00:49:23,753 --> 00:49:27,143

which would have been like, she was

carrying Betsy Johnson apparel before

:

00:49:27,323 --> 00:49:30,513

Betsy Johnson had stores in the mall.

:

00:49:30,523 --> 00:49:31,213

That's badass.

:

00:49:31,243 --> 00:49:33,353

And she's a badass.

:

00:49:33,353 --> 00:49:35,893

And so I grew up in there.

:

00:49:35,893 --> 00:49:39,573

So it took me a long time to

sort of figure out my version.

:

00:49:39,583 --> 00:49:41,193

Her store was called cornucopia.

:

00:49:41,193 --> 00:49:43,073

And so I think that the aviary is just.

:

00:49:43,208 --> 00:49:46,838

It's, it's like what she would

be doing today if it were a

:

00:49:46,838 --> 00:49:48,698

hair salon and a skincare spa.

:

00:49:48,698 --> 00:49:54,268

So I do love that it comes off like,

you know, I just did that, but I think

:

00:49:54,268 --> 00:49:55,608

I've learned from one of the best.

:

00:49:55,768 --> 00:49:58,348

So I think that's so fabulous.

:

00:49:58,358 --> 00:50:03,718

And uh, I mean, women benefit so

much from seeing other women do

:

00:50:03,798 --> 00:50:05,618

brave things and independent things.

:

00:50:05,648 --> 00:50:10,588

And just, I love that she, uh, Just

ingrained in you that like of course

:

00:50:10,598 --> 00:50:14,388

you can do this if you want to do this

so much and I always think to One of

:

00:50:14,388 --> 00:50:19,358

the things this used to incense my mom

too because it was the:

:

00:50:19,368 --> 00:50:23,728

wouldn't loan money to women Oh, yeah,

and even though my dad was an unemployed

:

00:50:23,858 --> 00:50:28,408

musician the bank told her that they

would not loan her money unless my dad

:

00:50:28,408 --> 00:50:34,903

co signed and If you fast forward to

today, , because I'm in my marriage, I'm

:

00:50:34,903 --> 00:50:37,003

the business owner with the most credit.

:

00:50:37,003 --> 00:50:40,973

And so it kind of tables reverse

when we went to refinance the house,

:

00:50:41,243 --> 00:50:44,984

the bank was like, actually it would

be better if just Amy was on it.

:

00:50:44,984 --> 00:50:48,743

And I think that was weirdly

emasculating to my husband.

:

00:50:48,743 --> 00:50:51,793

Cause he was like, I was like, no, I'm

not going to take the house, honey.

:

00:50:52,033 --> 00:50:52,283

Yeah.

:

00:50:52,633 --> 00:50:55,913

As long as you mind your P's and Q's.

:

00:50:55,913 --> 00:50:57,613

We just want that lower interest rate.

:

00:50:57,613 --> 00:50:57,903

Yeah.

:

00:50:58,968 --> 00:50:59,648

Sign here, baby.

:

00:50:59,648 --> 00:51:00,208

It's okay.

:

00:51:02,298 --> 00:51:03,678

Um, it's funny you mention that.

:

00:51:03,698 --> 00:51:05,368

I just hosted an event.

:

00:51:05,408 --> 00:51:09,153

, a I don't talk about politics a

ton on this podcast, but I think

:

00:51:09,153 --> 00:51:12,083

it's probably transparent as fuck

that I'm not a Republican, so I'm

:

00:51:12,083 --> 00:51:13,413

just going to just talk about this.

:

00:51:13,653 --> 00:51:19,023

Um, but I recently co hosted a Women

for Harris enthusiasm party, and

:

00:51:19,053 --> 00:51:22,503

one of the things that I did is I

printed out this list in Chronicle.

:

00:51:22,643 --> 00:51:25,683

Chronological order of rights

that women have gotten.

:

00:51:25,683 --> 00:51:28,433

So like:

get the right to vote.

:

00:51:28,653 --> 00:51:31,893

:

:

00:51:32,153 --> 00:51:34,163

:

:

00:51:34,363 --> 00:51:38,803

:

without your husband co signing.

:

00:51:39,013 --> 00:51:42,763

:

without your husband co signing.

:

00:51:42,953 --> 00:51:45,854

, and you can take out a credit card

without your husband co signing.

:

00:51:45,854 --> 00:51:47,908

But it wasn't until:

:

00:51:48,418 --> 00:51:51,548

88 that women can open a business

without a male co signer.

:

00:51:51,738 --> 00:51:53,318

Like you and I were both alive for that.

:

00:51:53,338 --> 00:51:54,438

And we are business owners now.

:

00:51:54,438 --> 00:51:55,618

I had no idea.

:

00:51:55,618 --> 00:51:56,858

88?

:

00:51:57,498 --> 00:52:02,168

Like I, I literally, so I got all of

those dates off of this girl on TikTok

:

00:52:02,168 --> 00:52:03,388

who makes sweatshirts who have them.

:

00:52:03,568 --> 00:52:06,628

And I just like typed them into Canva

and made a graphic and I sent it to one

:

00:52:06,628 --> 00:52:08,018

of the other co hosts who's a lawyer.

:

00:52:08,208 --> 00:52:10,138

, and I was like, look at these, this

is insane, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah.

:

00:52:10,138 --> 00:52:12,318

And she was like, some of these

dates don't feel right to me.

:

00:52:12,348 --> 00:52:13,568

Like where did you get this information?

:

00:52:13,578 --> 00:52:14,668

And I was like, TikTok.

:

00:52:14,668 --> 00:52:16,058

And she was like, can you fact check that?

:

00:52:16,058 --> 00:52:17,898

And I was like, now that you say it, yeah.

:

00:52:18,088 --> 00:52:18,898

And so I fact checked it.

:

00:52:19,233 --> 00:52:20,223

All of it was correct.

:

00:52:20,253 --> 00:52:22,393

And I was just like, damn,:

:

00:52:22,403 --> 00:52:24,973

Like I was hoping it was

wrong because it's insane.

:

00:52:25,023 --> 00:52:30,773

Well, I think you and I probably are alike

in that we work in such a female centric,

:

00:52:30,773 --> 00:52:36,213

like it is not uncommon for there to

be more women in a hair salon than men.

:

00:52:36,543 --> 00:52:40,763

And I do find sometimes that I'm a

little bit removed from what it's

:

00:52:40,773 --> 00:52:44,113

like for most of our clients who are

out there in the corporate world.

:

00:52:44,653 --> 00:52:45,923

And one time I had a client.

:

00:52:46,613 --> 00:52:50,413

I have lots of clients who, they'll

put me in their work calendars, Dr.

:

00:52:50,413 --> 00:52:50,993

Bransford.

:

00:52:50,993 --> 00:52:51,373

Yep.

:

00:52:51,373 --> 00:53:02,013

Um, but I had one who like all of her

corporate bosses were men and she was

:

00:53:02,013 --> 00:53:05,943

like, it's really not fair because

I'm working at the executive level.

:

00:53:06,243 --> 00:53:09,673

It's expected that I am going

to look a certain way, carry

:

00:53:09,673 --> 00:53:11,263

myself a certain way yet.

:

00:53:11,263 --> 00:53:14,323

I would be in big trouble if

they found out that I was.

:

00:53:14,808 --> 00:53:17,918

At the salon during, you know, a work day.

:

00:53:17,928 --> 00:53:18,318

Right.

:

00:53:18,358 --> 00:53:21,788

And so she would put me

in her calendar as Dr.

:

00:53:21,788 --> 00:53:23,428

Branciford OB GYN.

:

00:53:23,468 --> 00:53:24,398

That's amazing.

:

00:53:24,428 --> 00:53:26,838

Like I dare you to ask a

follow up question, Greg.

:

00:53:27,108 --> 00:53:29,808

Like, no, it's crazy.

:

00:53:29,818 --> 00:53:36,288

And I, uh, I love working with women,

like women are best and I, yeah.

:

00:53:36,738 --> 00:53:38,948

I hear stories about things people

have to deal with at work and I'm

:

00:53:38,948 --> 00:53:40,158

like, wait, but why do you allow that?

:

00:53:40,228 --> 00:53:41,288

And they're like, that's the culture.

:

00:53:41,298 --> 00:53:42,238

And I'm like, you have to change it.

:

00:53:42,318 --> 00:53:43,758

Like, I was like, what do you mean?

:

00:53:43,818 --> 00:53:44,678

That's the culture.

:

00:53:44,678 --> 00:53:47,128

Like, this is like, do

not consent to this.

:

00:53:47,158 --> 00:53:48,478

Like this is wild.

:

00:53:48,748 --> 00:53:52,148

And we're seeing things change and

hopefully, you know, so I've been doing

:

00:53:52,148 --> 00:53:55,408

a lot of canvassing for this election

and I had this beautiful experience

:

00:53:55,418 --> 00:53:58,368

where I knocked on her door and it's

not, you're not trying to convince

:

00:53:58,368 --> 00:53:59,428

anybody who they're going to vote for.

:

00:53:59,428 --> 00:54:01,133

It's really like, you

know, Bless you, Luna.

:

00:54:01,133 --> 00:54:05,853

Um, it's, you know, are, are,

are you planning on voting?

:

00:54:05,883 --> 00:54:08,283

Do you like, do you know where

to vote and just kind of like

:

00:54:08,283 --> 00:54:09,433

help increase the wheels?

:

00:54:09,703 --> 00:54:11,243

, but this guy was like, I'm

going to be honest with you.

:

00:54:11,243 --> 00:54:13,433

Like, I don't know that my

vote like really matters.

:

00:54:13,443 --> 00:54:17,033

And I was like, well, last election,

Joe Biden won the state of Georgia

:

00:54:17,063 --> 00:54:21,113

by 11, 700 votes, which breaks

down to four votes per precinct.

:

00:54:21,143 --> 00:54:22,813

So I was like, sir, your

vote couldn't matter more.

:

00:54:23,073 --> 00:54:24,783

And around this time, his

young daughter came out.

:

00:54:25,463 --> 00:54:27,543

She was probably like young

elementary school age.

:

00:54:27,863 --> 00:54:29,443

And, you know, she's

like, what's going on?

:

00:54:29,443 --> 00:54:30,133

What are we talking about?

:

00:54:30,133 --> 00:54:32,903

And I told her, you know, I'm a

volunteer with the Harris campaign.

:

00:54:32,963 --> 00:54:34,433

I'm just chatting with

her dad about voting.

:

00:54:34,433 --> 00:54:35,943

And she looked at her dad so earnestly.

:

00:54:35,943 --> 00:54:38,153

And she was like, daddy, you have to vote.

:

00:54:38,383 --> 00:54:40,913

I would love to see a

president who looks like me.

:

00:54:41,153 --> 00:54:45,223

And I was like, Oh my God, like,

I'm just like so emotional.

:

00:54:45,223 --> 00:54:45,983

And I just looked at him.

:

00:54:45,983 --> 00:54:47,423

I was like, are you going to,

how do you say no to that?

:

00:54:47,733 --> 00:54:51,693

, and we had this wonderful conversation

and, uh, you know, I thought about it as

:

00:54:51,693 --> 00:54:52,703

I was driving home from that experience.

:

00:54:53,148 --> 00:54:58,158

And I'm like, we tell and have told our

girls for so long, you can be whatever you

:

00:54:58,158 --> 00:55:00,508

want, but then we're modeling for them.

:

00:55:00,953 --> 00:55:05,043

That they can't and it's just I

feel like we're on this precipice

:

00:55:05,053 --> 00:55:09,003

of that tipping and I hope I hope

we are Because I think that the

:

00:55:09,003 --> 00:55:10,073

whole world would benefit from it.

:

00:55:10,073 --> 00:55:14,513

I think young men would benefit

from seeing women in Places of

:

00:55:14,513 --> 00:55:16,553

authority and it has to happen.

:

00:55:16,603 --> 00:55:17,943

It has to go back.

:

00:55:17,983 --> 00:55:19,993

Nobody should feel emasculated

because their wife is the one

:

00:55:19,993 --> 00:55:24,453

That's a better candidate for a

loan, you know, like It's okay.

:

00:55:24,463 --> 00:55:24,713

Yeah.

:

00:55:24,713 --> 00:55:26,383

How do you think we've

been feeling for ever?

:

00:55:27,693 --> 00:55:31,833

A hundred percent, you know, it's so

crazy anyways, we'll swing back off

:

00:55:31,833 --> 00:55:34,253

of that topic, but it's obviously

front of mind with everything

:

00:55:34,263 --> 00:55:35,213

that's happening right now.

:

00:55:35,213 --> 00:55:39,643

And I just, you know, what you and

I do couldn't have existed 40 years

:

00:55:39,643 --> 00:55:42,743

ago and that is a kind of insane.

:

00:55:43,013 --> 00:55:43,763

Absolutely.

:

00:55:43,783 --> 00:55:44,323

Yeah.

:

00:55:44,863 --> 00:55:45,303

All right.

:

00:55:45,353 --> 00:55:45,973

Well.

:

00:55:47,288 --> 00:55:49,168

I feel like that's kind of a

good note to wrap things on.

:

00:55:49,748 --> 00:55:51,868

Well, thank you so much for having me.

:

00:55:51,918 --> 00:55:53,328

Thank you so much, Amy.

:

00:55:53,328 --> 00:55:54,588

This has been a total delight.

:

00:55:54,618 --> 00:55:58,758

, if you're listening and you have ever had

dreams of going out on your own, being

:

00:55:58,758 --> 00:56:02,678

a business owner, , hopefully you got a

little inspo from my chat today with Amy

:

00:56:02,688 --> 00:56:07,108

and just, you know, you can do it, you

just have to be really authentic and true

:

00:56:07,108 --> 00:56:08,978

to yourself and, and carve that path.

:

00:56:09,248 --> 00:56:11,138

And, uh, if you don't

try, you'll never know.

:

00:56:11,328 --> 00:56:17,528

, so I think you should try, but, um, Amy,

you have been very, , Generous to extend

:

00:56:17,538 --> 00:56:21,488

your 15 year promo, uh, for our listeners.

:

00:56:21,518 --> 00:56:23,528

So, um, do you want to share with them?

:

00:56:23,698 --> 00:56:24,408

Absolutely.

:

00:56:24,408 --> 00:56:28,848

So 15 percent off of any

facial services at the aviary.

:

00:56:29,188 --> 00:56:30,928

Our website is aviarybeauty.

:

00:56:30,968 --> 00:56:34,338

com and you'll just use

the promo code HPY15.

:

00:56:35,603 --> 00:56:36,113

Perfect.

:

00:56:36,143 --> 00:56:37,543

Thank you so much for that.

:

00:56:37,553 --> 00:56:38,553

I'm probably going to

take advantage of that.

:

00:56:39,023 --> 00:56:44,313

Um, and as always Clover Club listeners

get 15 percent off at hawkinsandclover.

:

00:56:44,383 --> 00:56:47,003

com with code CLOVERCLUB, all caps.

:

00:56:47,243 --> 00:56:49,383

, like I said earlier, I'll link

everything that we chatted about

:

00:56:49,393 --> 00:56:51,773

in the show notes and Amy, thank

you so much again for your time.

:

00:56:51,783 --> 00:56:52,763

Thank you so much.

:

00:56:52,763 --> 00:56:54,543

Yay.

:

00:56:54,543 --> 00:56:55,093

We did it.

:

00:56:55,253 --> 00:56:55,893

Oh my God.

:

00:56:56,143 --> 00:56:57,493

I'm only sweating a little bit.

:

00:56:58,703 --> 00:56:59,203

You did great.

:

00:56:59,673 --> 00:57:00,703

You did super great.

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About the Podcast

Clover Club
Curious conversations and stories intended to make you laugh and learn.
As a shop owner and hair stylist with an impressive number of stamps on her passport, Erika Audrey has heard or experienced it all. And she's ready to share. These real life conversations and stories will make you laugh, cry, and gasp- sometimes in the same episode! Join Erika Audrey straight from Atlanta gift shop Hawkins & Clover. Welcome to Clover Club.

Thank you-
Theme Song: Nick Pantano of Sound Space https://www.soundspaceatl.com
Branding: Shari Margolin https://sharimargolindesignco.com

Contact-
pod@hawkinsandclover.com

About your host

Profile picture for Erika Audrey

Erika Audrey

Erika Audrey, a luminous presence hailing from the vibrant city of Atlanta, Georgia, is not your ordinary hairstylist and boutique owner. With a zest for life that's as contagious as her laughter, Erika is poised to take the podcasting world by storm as she embarks on her latest venture.

Launching her debut podcast is a natural extension of Erika's multifaceted personality. With an uncanny ability to seamlessly weave humor into her conversations, Erika's laughter-inducing anecdotes and razor-sharp wit are bound to captivate listeners. Her intelligence shines through as she tackles a diverse range of topics, proving that beneath the laughter lies substance and insight.