Episode 6

Six Degrees of Keith Pepper

Published on: 25th September, 2023

Join Erika Audrey in the latest episode of "Clover Club" as she sits down with the multifaceted local media entrepreneur Keith Pepper. In this engaging conversation, they explore the intersections of civil engagement, entrepreneurship, and personal pursuits like running marathons. But that's not all – tune in to discover Keith's insights on the world of dating and perhaps even a few tips about crafting the perfect salad. It's a dynamic discussion you won't want to miss!

Join the Rough Draft community! Subscribe now by texting DRAFT to 66866

Transcript
erika:

Welcome to Clover Club, everybody.

2

:

This is our first episode without Kelly.

3

:

So, we're gonna have a little

briefer of an intro because, Kelly's

4

:

not here to ask me how my week is.

5

:

, so my guest today I am so excited to have.

6

:

When I decided to start this

podcast, he was on my short

7

:

list of people that I just knew.

8

:

I had to get up here and get a

microphone in front of his face.

9

:

If you live in Atlanta, you've

probably heard Of this person, I

10

:

feel like he's the Kevin Bacon of

Atlanta, where everybody either knows

11

:

him or knows somebody who knows him.

12

:

And so today, I'm excited

to introduce Keith Pepper.

13

:

Hi, Keith.

14

:

keith: Hi, Erica.

15

:

How was your

16

:

erika: week?

17

:

Thank you so much for asking.

18

:

My week was, actually wonderful,

because as you know, it's starting

19

:

to get, , gorgeous in Atlanta.

20

:

I think it was 60 degrees last night.

21

:

It is so

22

:

keith: nice out this week.

23

:

So nice.

24

:

It's the perfect week.

25

:

erika: Yeah, I described last night the

weather as It actually kind of feels

26

:

like the absence of weather right now.

27

:

So you you don't notice it.

28

:

It's like i'm not too

hot I'm, not too cold.

29

:

There's nothing for me to bitch

about in this very exclusive

30

:

temperature zone, and i'm loving

31

:

keith: it How many hours a day

does that add to your day when

32

:

there's nothing to complain

33

:

erika: about?

34

:

I thought I was the

interviewer here, that's a...

35

:

If I didn't have anything to complain

about, I would move my mouth so much less.

36

:

It's crazy to think about, actually.

37

:

It would probably be very, efficient.

38

:

I should go to one of those,

like, silent meditation retreats.

39

:

keith: As I sit here and nod on

the podcast, is that helpful?

40

:

Yeah.

41

:

erika: You can't see Keith, but he's

sitting here cross legged with his

42

:

little Clark's booties and half of

a headphone on and he's just ready

43

:

to be a man behind the scenes.

44

:

Just

45

:

keith: wondering how long you

would last in a silent retreat.

46

:

erika: Well, I did go on an Ayahuasca

retreat and there was a lot of

47

:

introspection there and I lasted.

48

:

I

49

:

keith: completed it.

50

:

Do you know how you know if

someone's done Ayahuasca?

51

:

erika: The same way they know if

you've run the New York Marathon.

52

:

Touche.

53

:

So I was texting with Keith and he's

like, what do you want to talk about?

54

:

And so I sent him this like very

thoughtful list of like lots of

55

:

different topics of things that

I wanted to discuss with them.

56

:

One of which was that Keith has run

the New York Marathon and all he

57

:

wrote back was New York Marathon, LOL.

58

:

So Keith, , how many times

have you run the New York

59

:

keith: Marathon?

60

:

I've run it three times, but a lot of

people have run the New York Marathon.

61

:

erika: Wow.

62

:

I don't know a lot of people

who go out of their way to tell

63

:

me about it every other week.

64

:

keith: When did I tell you about it?

65

:

Ever?

66

:

erika: Well, how would I know

if you didn't tell me about it?

67

:

I wouldn't.

68

:

I don't know.

69

:

Exactly!

70

:

A wine filled, uh, neighborly evening.

71

:

We had a lot of time

together during COVID.

72

:

keith: Yeah, so, okay, so

Keith and I are neighbors.

73

:

That is how we got to know each other.

74

:

. erika: This is when I feel

like we became friends, Keith.

75

:

I had my first COVID scare, . I got the

memo that I had been exposed to COVID.

76

:

And so I quarantined, and it was

very early in COVID, where everybody

77

:

thought, like, am I gonna die?

78

:

And Keith texted me, and he was like, Do

you want anything from Ticonderoga Club?

79

:

And I was like, Oh my God.

80

:

Yes.

81

:

Cause I'd been trapped in my

house for like 72 hours at

82

:

that point, losing my mind.

83

:

And, uh, you brought me a cob

salad from Ticonderoga club.

84

:

And I swear to God, it turns out I didn't

have COVID, but if I had, I think that

85

:

keith: would have cured me.

86

:

There are easier ways to get a cob

87

:

erika: salad, but it

worked, but it worked.

88

:

It's just the best salad.

89

:

,

keith: There's a lot of great salads, you know, but I I think one of the

90

:

best salads is I don't even know if

it's underrated Is the felini salad?

91

:

Oh

92

:

erika: my god That is the best

salad in the country It is perfect.

93

:

The mozzarella is like fettuccine.

94

:

It's so good.

95

:

keith: Even the dressing, like the

Cisco brand creamy Italian dressing.

96

:

Yes, it's literally Which I would

never eat in any other setting.

97

:

erika: I totally agree, but you put it in

a little clear container with no labeling

98

:

and you're just like, mmm, a delicacy.

99

:

I completely agree with you

100

:

. I almost had that last night actually.

101

:

I know I'm not going.

102

:

keith: You should have called me.

103

:

I would have brought you one.

104

:

erika: Next time.

105

:

My salad delivery man.

106

:

so Keith, okay.

107

:

Will you give us kind of a little

brief elevator pitch of . Who you are

108

:

keith: Sure, so I grew up

Tell us everything about you.

109

:

I am an atlanta native,

which is somewhat rare.

110

:

Yes, although not in this room.

111

:

Yeah, so Was born here.

112

:

My mom's side of the

family is from new york.

113

:

They moved down in the late 50s When she

was in high school my dad Grew up here was

114

:

born somewhere else but moved here when he

was very young and grew up in druid hills.

115

:

So in like the Driving Miss Daisy

era of Atlanta, so my grandmother

116

:

on my dad's side was, uh, friendly

with, , like that crew, so.

117

:

That's so cool.

118

:

, so have, I grew up here, and then did my

parents in the 70s move to the suburbs, so

119

:

we were raised in Dunwoody and then Sandy

Springs, and then I went to the University

120

:

of Georgia, and after school I traveled,

, I'd never been outside the country.

121

:

I may have been to Cancun, like, during...

122

:

I feel like that counts,

but it doesn't count.

123

:

Either, like, freshman year

of college or something.

124

:

Mm hmm.

125

:

And had never been outside the

country, but had a, you know, keen

126

:

interest in international stuff.

127

:

My grandmother was a big

traveler, and I always wanted to

128

:

travel, you know, outside the U.

129

:

S.

130

:

So I went to Europe on a Eurorail pass.

131

:

Yeah.

132

:

This is pre email, pre cell phones.

133

:

This is, like, the early 90s.

134

:

This is 1993.

135

:

Okay.

136

:

So I think I was the last class

from the University of Georgia

137

:

to graduate without email.

138

:

Wow.

139

:

erika: God, that's

140

:

keith: just so crazy to think about.

141

:

It is.

142

:

So, went to Europe and then ended up

living in Israel for most of the year.

143

:

So I was basically gone for

about a year and had more of an

144

:

education in that year than I had

ever doing anything else before.

145

:

So that really awakened me

to things outside of Atlanta.

146

:

, came back, spent some time here,

ended up moving to DC and then

147

:

to New York, and got to New York

in:

148

:

Yeah.

149

:

So it was a wild time.

150

:

It was the first dot com bubble.

151

:

So it was when the internet was

really starting to take off.

152

:

Yeah.

153

:

, got a job, walked in off the street

and got a job at an internet startup.

154

:

And my first job, this was in 2000.

155

:

My first job was.

156

:

, it was all international, because

I told them that I was interested

157

:

in international affairs.

158

:

And so I got a job doing

sales in emerging markets.

159

:

So my first trip I ever took was to India.

160

:

Oh, cool.

161

:

And then Singapore and Australia and

went all over South America, Mexico.

162

:

So for the first two years of my

career, I never took one domestic trip.

163

:

That's awesome.

164

:

It was pretty wild.

165

:

Yeah.

166

:

, yeah.

167

:

So that was a, a great.

168

:

experience.

169

:

I was in New York, for 20 years.

170

:

, I tried to come back to

Atlanta once in:

171

:

And I was, uh, at the time,

just wasn't quite ready.

172

:

I think I needed to move to

Brooklyn, which I did next.

173

:

So I lasted about 15

months here in Atlanta.

174

:

Okay.

175

:

You boomeranged.

176

:

I think, I mean, I think knowing you and

Maybe your podcast audience at the time.

177

:

I was living in New York.

178

:

I had just turned 40 And I was

single and all my friends in New

179

:

York were 40 and single nice and

I got to Atlanta and people were

180

:

like What are you talking about?

181

:

so That was, it was a weird time.

182

:

Like the belt line hadn't, it just opened

and it wasn't, it wasn't even finished.

183

:

So, , it was, you know, just the first

parts of it had, had opened and so

184

:

things were just starting to get going.

185

:

So I went back to New York, and

stayed another seven years or

186

:

so, , before finally I was ready

to come back to Atlanta and I

187

:

got, , got a place here in 2018 and

then commuted for about 18 months.

188

:

Every week between New York and

Atlanta, that's wild because I was in

189

:

an international job again So I was

doing a lot of travel and then I finally

190

:

pulled the plug and was here since right

before the pandemic full time Yeah,

191

:

erika: okay, and you've had a

career shift since you've moved.

192

:

keith: I Have had a career shift

since I moved In fact, I left my job

193

:

at the end of my time in New York.

194

:

So Okay.

195

:

I wanted to be back in Atlanta and I

wasn't quite sure what I wanted to do.

196

:

Mm hmm.

197

:

, it was 2019 and obviously politics

were quite hot in Atlanta, in Georgia.

198

:

Why?

199

:

I'm just kidding.

200

:

And I was looking for something to do to

be a little bit more civically engaged

201

:

in the community and maybe think about my

own business and I, but I had no ideas.

202

:

I was not.

203

:

didn't have an idea to start a business,

so I was looking around at a small

204

:

business broker, and that's where I

discovered this group of local newspapers

205

:

that was for sale, and it was literally

print newspapers that were distributed

206

:

through direct mail in about five

communities around Atlanta, Buckhead.

207

:

Brookhaven and then in town Atlanta.

208

:

Yeah.

209

:

And the person that , had started

them was turning 70 and he was

210

:

looking for a succession plan.

211

:

Wasn't a family member

that was looking to do it.

212

:

So I started talking to him and earlier

in my career when I was very, very young,

213

:

I worked in radio and, and I worked

at WSB radio when I was 16 years old.

214

:

So, and I worked there

all through high school.

215

:

Okay.

216

:

All through college.

217

:

It actually was the epitome of not cool.

218

:

Really?

219

:

It sounds cool.

220

:

It was cool for me, but it wasn't

like a cool thing to be into radio.

221

:

erika: You're like ahead of your time.

222

:

keith: It was, yeah, maybe.

223

:

And way before podcasts,

way before digital.

224

:

And, I got really excited.

225

:

I thought, this is really cool.

226

:

And it tapped into my passion about media.

227

:

and I went to a bunch of friends and

I said, please talk me out of this.

228

:

This is crazy.

229

:

I thought it was easy

230

:

erika: for them to come up with reasons

231

:

keith: No one people that know me

for 40 years and people that know me

232

:

for four months all said Seems like

a great fit like you've got really

233

:

yeah, it was shocking and It was yeah,

so we were able to strike a deal And

234

:

it was covet because no, I mean so

no one Wanted to buy this company.

235

:

It was, uh, people were not

lining up to buy newspapers, let

236

:

erika: alone in a pandemic, especially

237

:

keith: in a pandemic.

238

:

Yeah.

239

:

So I was able to, put together

a deal and I had a plan.

240

:

And the day after we closed the deal,

uh, the AJC interviewed me when actually

241

:

you play a big part in this, because

if you remember that we did the deal.

242

:

And then the AJC called, and

they wanted to do this story,

243

:

and they needed a picture.

244

:

Oh yeah!

245

:

And I had no headshots, and also, for

the previous I mean, year and a half.

246

:

I hadn't cut my hair.

247

:

Yeah.

248

:

. So , so I was not really

ready for prime time.

249

:

Keith

250

:

erika: looked like a

ragamuffin throughout Covid.

251

:

It was a vibe.

252

:

It worked

253

:

keith: until I suddenly had to

be, have my picture in the paper.

254

:

Yeah.

255

:

So you were gracious enough to take

uh, I got a haircut and then Yeah.

256

:

You took, I documented the first,

uh, headshot that I still use

257

:

erika: today.

258

:

You do still use it?

259

:

Yeah.

260

:

Oh.

261

:

Am I gonna get any like

commissions on this?

262

:

Well, we

263

:

keith: probably need to update,

because owning a newspaper has

264

:

given me a few more gray hairs

in the last two and a half years.

265

:

Um, anyway, so the AJC wrote a column, and

the columnist Bill Torpy, who is really

266

:

the last of the, you know, the classic

newspaper columnists of, previous eras,

267

:

wrote this very funny, very, accurate

column but in it he called me a nut.

268

:

Who is this.

269

:

I had to find out out of morbid curiosity,

who this nut is that bought a newspaper.

270

:

That's a tagline.

271

:

Yeah, so, the second month,

we were, Moving along, I think

272

:

our revenue fell about 20%.

273

:

Okay.

274

:

And I sat on the floor of my

loft in the fetal position.

275

:

What have I was like, what have I done?

276

:

I've never owned a business before.

277

:

Oh, Keith.

278

:

I had never had my name on the checks.

279

:

Mm hmm.

280

:

Um, anyway, so I looked back at the plan

that I put together when we started and

281

:

we got back on track and The first year

we grew, I think, about 16, 17 percent.

282

:

Mm hmm.

283

:

, and then we grew again the next year.

284

:

And it's been great having the best time.

285

:

It is the perfect, , job for me.

286

:

Yeah.

287

:

And it's been, it's been great, so.

288

:

erika: It's , really impressive,

uh, knowing you from kind of before,

289

:

during, and after it makes sense

to me that somebody would refer

290

:

to you as a nut for buying a...

291

:

Are you taking a break?

292

:

keith: I'm stretching.

293

:

I mean, I'm

294

:

erika: adjusting.

295

:

Keith just like took off his headphones.

296

:

Just like,

297

:

keith: are we done?

298

:

I can't.

299

:

I, I, I, so, I worked in

radio when I was young.

300

:

Yeah.

301

:

And my dream was to be on the radio.

302

:

Mm hmm.

303

:

And I would sit in my bed as a kid.

304

:

Many people have these stories

and, and announce the sports games.

305

:

Uh huh.

306

:

And I thought, like, this

is my dream to be in radio.

307

:

Yeah.

308

:

And, And then I realized

I have a terrible voice.

309

:

I don't agree.

310

:

It's very sleepy.

311

:

So, you should advise people at

the beginning of this podcast.

312

:

If you listen on 2.

313

:

0, it sounds great.

314

:

erika: Do not listen while operating

heavy machinery or driving.

315

:

keith: Do not.

316

:

But, now I lost track of the question.

317

:

I don't

318

:

erika: think there was a

question, but that makes me,

319

:

I feel like I need to share.

320

:

Keith always smells like lavender,

which I feel like is the way

321

:

you just described your voice.

322

:

Just like real soothing and relaxing,

and I don't think that's a bad thing.

323

:

Does it smell like lavender?

324

:

keith: Well, there are worse things.

325

:

Thank you, yeah.

326

:

I have, I have a very

heightened sense of smell.

327

:

Do you?

328

:

I don't know why, and my father

clearly lacked a sense of smell because

329

:

he would drown himself in cologne.

330

:

Oh man.

331

:

So, I'm super aware of, smells.

332

:

Okay.

333

:

That makes sense.

334

:

erika: So, I don't know.

335

:

You're, you're course correcting from dad.

336

:

keith: But I do have

lavender candles, I guess.

337

:

erika: Don't you put

lavender stuff on poppy?

338

:

I feel like Keith douses his

designer dog in like Aesop and then he

339

:

keith: smells like her.

340

:

erika: Keith I have a question

you said something earlier.

341

:

It's made me think the Energy

and, , feel of being in New York

342

:

as the Internet was emerging.

343

:

Does that feel comparable to what

you're seeing happen with AI now?

344

:

Like, is this the precipice of the

next kind of big, game changing thing?

345

:

keith: Can I put that into the chat,

GPT, and see what the answer is?

346

:

Um, I think so, yeah.

347

:

I mean, it is, it's,

348

:

Yeah, I mean, whereas the Internet

And, I mean, technology always , is

349

:

allowing people to do things faster

and to scale things and to, , you

350

:

know, change every industry.

351

:

, I, you know, I think AI will

change the internet industry,

352

:

I guess, or is changing it.

353

:

I mean, it's, it's, it's, sure,

but it's a, it's a, it's a next

354

:

extension of the internet.

355

:

I mean, I think a lot of the,

the most recent AI stuff is.

356

:

And I don't really understand how

it happened so quickly, overnight.

357

:

Mm-hmm.

358

:

Or chat.

359

:

G b T suddenly was ready for consumer use.

360

:

Right.

361

:

Yeah.

362

:

Because you've been using AI

and, and Gmail, or you've been

363

:

using AI and Grammarly mm-hmm.

364

:

, , those are all ai Sure.

365

:

Driven stuff.

366

:

But it's, I mean like, like

everything in technology where once

367

:

it reaches a certain level just,

it just like grows exponentially.

368

:

Yeah.

369

:

Much fetch faster.

370

:

Yeah.

371

:

Um, it's, it's really remarkable.

372

:

It

373

:

erika: is remarkable.

374

:

It's, uh, I think this is scary, but I

also just wonder when I compare the 90s

375

:

to now, I'm like, I wonder if people were

feeling the same way about the internet.

376

:

I

377

:

keith: think so.

378

:

That they are.

379

:

I mean, I think people were

feeling the same way about TV.

380

:

Yeah.

381

:

When they, when TV came out, I

mean, I think people were feeling

382

:

the same way about, about any

technology revolution, cars.

383

:

Yeah.

384

:

erika: Well, you were

there when TV came out.

385

:

I mean, what was it like?

386

:

I don't know.

387

:

I don't know.

388

:

Uh, sorry,

389

:

I love to risk Keith.

390

:

He's just too fun.

391

:

keith: I didn't even have a good

comeback, but, but TV is radically

392

:

changed by, you know, by streaming,

, you know, maybe by AI because AI is

393

:

what powers the algorithms that put.

394

:

You know that make it so that you

spend half your night now just flipping

395

:

through netflix and not watching Network

tv and in a lot of cases probably

396

:

not even watching netflix because

you can't find What you want to find.

397

:

So it's just an example of how I think

it's transforming every industry.

398

:

erika: I agree with that.

399

:

In one industry it's transforming,

or not transforming, but I, I heard

400

:

this analogy that I really liked.

401

:

And it compared modern

day dating to Netflix.

402

:

So it's like you spend more

time scrolling on Netflix.

403

:

Like, Oh, like this show looks really

good, but , what if I keep scrolling?

404

:

There's an even better looking show.

405

:

And I think people are

treating people like that.

406

:

Now, , and especially with

like apps and stuff like that.

407

:

It just seems like there's, there's

too much content at the tip of our

408

:

fingers and people just can't commit.

409

:

keith: Yeah.

410

:

There's, I mean, there's too much

choice and, uh, and, and absolutely.

411

:

I mean, in TV and in the

way that dating apps work.

412

:

Yeah.

413

:

, absolutely.

414

:

erika: So Keith, you are

in your early fifties.

415

:

I feel like you've essentially

already shared that, so I'm

416

:

just going to say it out loud.

417

:

, but you're single, you've

never been married.

418

:

Correct.

419

:

And I wonder, I see that smile.

420

:

I

421

:

keith: need to pull up

your list of topics.

422

:

erika: I, I gave you forewarning.

423

:

But I wonder, this applies to me,

and it's been becoming more and more.

424

:

clear to me and I just wonder if you

feel this way also because I think

425

:

it is different for men and women.

426

:

, but I've realized as I have been a

business owner and really kind of

427

:

come into my own and just built a

life that I very much enjoy it makes

428

:

dating so much harder because you're

like man I've figured it out like

429

:

you have there's so much somebody

else would have to bring to the table

430

:

to make it worth Sharing, I guess?

431

:

, and I wonder if that's something that

you experience or if that's maybe

432

:

a more female perspective thing.

433

:

keith: Do you think your

difficulty in sharing with

434

:

others is why you're not married?

435

:

erika: Damn, Keith!

436

:

Um, uh, okay.

437

:

I've been engaged.

438

:

Did you know that?

439

:

No.

440

:

Yeah, I've been engaged.

441

:

keith: Oh, thanks for

coming on my podcast.

442

:

Tell me more.

443

:

erika: Do you want to get married?

444

:

keith: Um, I, wow.

445

:

I think as I get older

I'm more open to it.

446

:

I mean, as, as not, you know,

an insignificant number of my

447

:

friends frequently mentioned to me.

448

:

Mm-hmm.

449

:

, I'm not getting any younger.

450

:

Yeah.

451

:

I mean, I think it's, You

know, I'm watching a lot of my

452

:

friends, deal with aging parents.

453

:

And I think it's, you know,

I still feel very young.

454

:

I think I hopefully act very young,

but, you know, knowing, the numbers.

455

:

Work against you, it's not gonna, you

know, so it, becomes something I think

456

:

about more, , probably than I ever have.

457

:

So

458

:

erika: prior to this phase of your

life, that it was not a priority?

459

:

keith: Well, no, clearly not.

460

:

I mean,

461

:

erika: that's...

462

:

Is it something that you just assumed

would always happen and that it

463

:

didn't, or was it just not even...

464

:

No, I never,

465

:

keith: I mean, it's, I

don't know, I mean, one...

466

:

I was in New York for a long time and

I think we talked about like all of my

467

:

friends were 40 and single Yeah, so it

just wasn't like why would you get married

468

:

because it you know, it's you can't live

with another person in New York Yeah,

469

:

because you know space it's incredibly

expensive It wasn't driven Didn't have

470

:

a passion or a calling to have kids.

471

:

Yeah, especially in New York.

472

:

Oh god You know in a large part because

I thought I could never afford it

473

:

erika: You're right.

474

:

No matter how much money

you make you're right.

475

:

keith: So so it wasn't and then and then

I didn't have The stereotypical Jewish

476

:

mother like nagging me to get married.

477

:

Oh, that's true.

478

:

So it just wasn't something that

was really On my radar and it took

479

:

me I mean I definitely You know

came into my own later in life.

480

:

So, I was a late maturer physically,

and I think it took me a long

481

:

time to get confidence, both

professionally and personally.

482

:

erika: There's something about being

single as , I mean, I think people

483

:

might be mad if they hear me in my late

thirties saying like later in life, but

484

:

I think that being single as a fully

formed adult, you learn so much about

485

:

yourself and I find it really enjoyable.

486

:

And to me, the most important

relationship that I have is with myself.

487

:

And, uh, I think that with every

year older, I get my standards.

488

:

It's only get higher and higher, and

I'm, like you said, it's a numbers game.

489

:

It's like you whittle away this pool

of, uh, there's no reason to settle.

490

:

Life's good.

491

:

, so it's gotta be this really special

mix of things that would make it worth,

492

:

keith: you know.

493

:

Yeah, I mean I have a very rich full life.

494

:

Yeah family and friends and I'm

lucky in that way and I just have

495

:

I'm independent so I think that

That's what sort of drives me.

496

:

I am not, I wish I was as

introspective as you're saying.

497

:

I wish that I was able to, to do more

of that, but I, I think I'd be kidding

498

:

myself if I said that was the case.

499

:

I mean, I think it's

just not how I function.

500

:

I mean, I have done a

lot of that in my past.

501

:

Yeah.

502

:

, but it's not my current.

503

:

I mean, I'm very, very, very

focused on business and growing it

504

:

and making sure we're successful.

505

:

erika: It makes a lot of sense.

506

:

And that obviously would take up the

prominent bandwidth in your life.

507

:

keith: Yeah, maybe.

508

:

I mean, there's a lot of things that I

want to do, and there's a lot of things

509

:

I do do socially, culturally, where it's

nice to have someone to do that with.

510

:

It's true.

511

:

So it's not, it's not something

I'm not interested in.

512

:

Yeah.

513

:

, I'm lucky.

514

:

That I have got a lot of friends that,

that are also single or let me tag along.

515

:

Yes.

516

:

, to do things with them.

517

:

, and that I'm close in.

518

:

My fam my sisters are here.

519

:

Mm-hmm.

520

:

and, and we're, I'm

lucky that we're friends.

521

:

Yes, you are.

522

:

erika: So that, that helps.

523

:

That's huge.

524

:

. Um, and it's not like it's

hard to get a date in Atlanta.

525

:

I mean, it's...

526

:

That part's easy, but it's just like

527

:

I feel like it's just like finding

somebody you want to consistently see

528

:

for a long time is the problem, you know,

529

:

. keith: Um, but you know, I think that

the, it's, the grass is always greener.

530

:

People, yes, people see

your life or my life.

531

:

And they say, Oh, I wish I could go

with you tonight to the Eastern to this

532

:

concert, but I've got back to school

night with my kids, or I told my, husband

533

:

or wife that I would do such and such.

534

:

So, but the grass is always greener.

535

:

I mean, there's days when, you

know, when you had COVID, you wanted

536

:

someone to bring you a Cobb salad.

537

:

And luckily there was, luckily

there was someone that was going.

538

:

Every day to Ticonderoga Club

during the pandemic and that

539

:

helped get you a Cobb salad.

540

:

Yeah,

541

:

erika: I manifested that offer.

542

:

, keith: I, I think , the relationship

doesn't have to be defined by, uh, what

543

:

it was like, you know, what traditional, I

mean, even though I'm not naive enough to

544

:

think that traditional, gender roles or

what have you are still part of society.

545

:

Sure.

546

:

Obviously they are, but I

think it's changing quite

547

:

erika: rapidly.

548

:

I completely agree with that.

549

:

Thank

550

:

keith: God.

551

:

Yeah, I mean, you're, you're

a great example, right?

552

:

You're, you know, you're, the way

you live your life, the way you,

553

:

openly address even this topic.

554

:

Um, you know, and I think it's,

that's an example for other young

555

:

women, young, other young women

didn't have that role model to know

556

:

that they could be business owners,

that they didn't have to be married.

557

:

And then you see a lot more, you

know, many, many of my contemporaries

558

:

are, you know, choosing to have.

559

:

Children on their own.

560

:

Yeah, and raising them on their own and

don't need That traditional family unit.

561

:

So I think it's all changed, but if you

want to put me on your checking account

562

:

erika: I'm a very big

pro, uh, prenup person.

563

:

I love the idea of, like, yours,

mine, ours, and, , if it's in

564

:

the mine category, and, you know,

like, being very intentional

565

:

with cross pollination of funds.

566

:

, but it is really nice to watch that

whole landscape evolve, because I think

567

:

that there were limited options for,

I mean, thousands of years of human

568

:

history, and, uh, I think, I was just

having a conversation with my best

569

:

friend who's in her late 30s and decided

you know what like I don't fucking

570

:

want kids and she's felt pressured

like she needs to and she finally

571

:

just had this concrete realization.

572

:

But I think even now people are like,

I don't want to do things the way that

573

:

we've been told we have to do things

and it's really, refreshing to see.

574

:

Oh, you've been to, is it

Fish or Widespread Panic?

575

:

Who's the band that you've

been to, or Grateful Dead?

576

:

You've been to like 47 shows.

577

:

keith: I've been to 11

Grateful Dead shows.

578

:

So you, you're, I think what you're

referring to is, is I worked in.

579

:

You know, corporate jobs and,

you know, you always have to

580

:

introduce yourself and give three

interesting things about yourself.

581

:

So, I, like you said, I've

been to 11 Grateful Dead shows.

582

:

, I've finished in the top 500

of the New York City Marathon.

583

:

Oh, that's the

584

:

erika: detail, the top 500.

585

:

Not just that you've done

it, but that you've finished,

586

:

like, in a respectful place.

587

:

keith: And, I've hung out

with Willie Nelson on his bus.

588

:

erika: Okay.

589

:

I'm gonna ask the question that

everybody listening wants to know.

590

:

Did you partake?

591

:

keith: I did not because he

did not offer and I was sick.

592

:

So I was staying sort of the 10 years

ago version of six feet away from him.

593

:

I did not want to get Willie Nelson sick.

594

:

That would be

595

:

erika: a dick move.

596

:

If he had offered you, would

you have smoked a joint

597

:

keith: with Willie Nelson?

598

:

Yes, and I was in like

heavy, heavy training.

599

:

For the New York City Marathon,

and I don't really smoke, although

600

:

many people say I probably should.

601

:

And I was prepared to, I was

prepared to definitely partake.

602

:

If he offered, but he never offered.

603

:

And he had a joint behind

his ear the whole time.

604

:

Oh my

605

:

erika: god, and you're

just like staring at it.

606

:

Have you ever consumed cannabis?

607

:

Yes, of course.

608

:

Okay, so that wouldn't

have been your first time.

609

:

No, no, no.

610

:

Okay, okay,

611

:

keith: okay.

612

:

But not, but not, not a ton.

613

:

I, uh, I missed.

614

:

The high school years, um, mostly because

my mom was sick and I was like sort of

615

:

like staying straight and narrow and then,

the only times during college was usually

616

:

when I was, this sounds, I can't believe

I'm going to say this, when I was drinking

617

:

and then I would just fall asleep.

618

:

So it never really took, and

then I was a runner for so many

619

:

years, so I can't smoke, so.

620

:

That's fair.

621

:

erika: Well, if you're listening,

Keith's drug of choice is

622

:

like a light, crisp red wine.

623

:

LAUGHS

624

:

. Um, You see I'm using

your rough draft pen.

625

:

keith: I like it.

626

:

We just ordered new colors today.

627

:

What colors?

628

:

Uh, not sure.

629

:

I actually gave that decision

over to someone else.

630

:

Believe it or not.

631

:

Whoa!

632

:

erika: Not.

633

:

Um, swinging back to work a little bit.

634

:

I think a lot of small business

owners would say that the portion of

635

:

their business they like the least

is marketing and social media and

636

:

advertising and just kind of all of

the stuff that's integral to keeping a

637

:

business growing and flowing, but isn't

actually the point of their business.

638

:

You own a media company, so of

course that is more the point of

639

:

your business, but you've done an

exceptional job of scaling things in,

640

:

what'd you say, two and a half years?

641

:

What are the smartest moves you've

made in that time period that

642

:

you've seen, , the best ROI on?

643

:

keith: Well, let me

answer this in two ways.

644

:

I own a media company that is, uh, we

have print, we have digital, uh, products.

645

:

And so, We have a built in audience.

646

:

I mean, we've, we've grown the audience

and we continue to try to develop the

647

:

audience and grow it in different ways.

648

:

We actually do very little, almost

to a fault of our own marketing, uh,

649

:

which we need to get better at, and

I'll tell you why in a second, , so

650

:

that's, you know, we, because , we have

an audience of people that are coming

651

:

to us for, news and information and

content on a daily, hopefully multiple

652

:

times a day, basis, then we've got,

you know, we've got the ability to put

653

:

marketing messages in front of people.

654

:

And so how we use social media,

I mean, for us social media

655

:

as a distribution channel.

656

:

So it, all of our content

goes into our Facebook stream.

657

:

A lot of it goes on Instagram.

658

:

A lot of it goes, unfortunately, onto

Twitter, uh, and, and then some of it,

659

:

you know, more and more we need to get,

to get better at this goes on to LinkedIn.

660

:

We actually haven't really taken

advantage of TikTok or Snapchat

661

:

yet, , although we probably should.

662

:

It's just a factor of, you know,

people having the staff to do it.

663

:

, There are some technology tools or AI

tools that are going to help us get

664

:

information into the format that it

needs to be in to go onto Snapchat or

665

:

onto reels, for example, but we haven't,

you know, our core competency is writing

666

:

relatively I don't even want to say

long form because it's comical how short

667

:

people's attention spans have become,

so we're not doing long form journalism

668

:

as you would know it in a, you know,

traditional magazine or in, you know,

669

:

in the New Yorker, but we're doing, you

know, we're doing a, what, the continuum

670

:

of news, , you know, local, hyper local

news for the communities that we cover,

671

:

so we just have a built in, , Advantage

or platform in terms of putting out

672

:

content on a daily basis where a small

business person that isn't in the content

673

:

creation business has to then focus.

674

:

So you are your core core

business is not creating content.

675

:

Doing this podcast is a great example

of how you're a media company now.

676

:

So you've become so you

have an audience, right?

677

:

You're taking your assets in this

case, which is your personality and the

678

:

experiences that you've lived and your

experiences in business and life, and then

679

:

you're putting it out in a media product.

680

:

So you're in the media game.

681

:

So now businesses have the ability to

cut out and, you know, traditionally

682

:

they would have to go to a media company.

683

:

So a publisher, a newspaper, a TV

station, a radio station, a billboard,

684

:

And I think that's all there was.

685

:

Yeah.

686

:

And you'd have to purchase

airtime or convince them that

687

:

your story was worth telling.

688

:

Now you can fire up your laptop and

you can record a podcast and then

689

:

you can have this podcast around the

world in, you know, less than an hour.

690

:

erika: Well, so Keith, as a, , budding

media company owner, what do I do?

691

:

How do I be successful?

692

:

What do I do now?

693

:

keith: I think you're doing it.

694

:

I mean, the first thing you

have to do is commit to do it.

695

:

I'm committed.

696

:

I think that you have to...

697

:

Be consistent.

698

:

Mm-hmm.

699

:

and put things out.

700

:

So you're creating, I think that

for, you know, and, and this is both

701

:

what I consume and ideally what we

put out, it's about consistency.

702

:

Mm-hmm.

703

:

, I think it's about, , Consistency, meaning

it's going to come out every week or, and

704

:

it's also going to be relatively the same.

705

:

So I think that people,

people don't like surprises.

706

:

And I'm not just talking about 52 year old

OCD single men with dogs that smell like

707

:

lavender, but people like consistency.

708

:

And so this is one of the things that

I think we've done really well is,,

709

:

You know, you know, in our products,

what you're going to get every day,

710

:

it doesn't, it comes at the same time.

711

:

It looks the same.

712

:

It's the same order.

713

:

All that stuff matters.

714

:

Yeah, there's

715

:

erika: comfort

716

:

keith: and predictability.

717

:

There's comfort and predictability,

especially when you're trying to

718

:

create a daily routine or in your

case, a weekly or biweekly routine.

719

:

Sure.

720

:

I think that the risk is that, you know,

this is not your core business, right?

721

:

So you've got to be, You've got

to be careful about getting off

722

:

focus, um, what your core business

is and how you make your money.

723

:

Because I think that your, your podcast

is off to a great start and I'm sorry

724

:

if the trends stop running into a

brick wall with this episode, but , you

725

:

know, it's not how you're going to,

and I don't even think you're actually

726

:

shaping it this way because you're

not being very commercial about it.

727

:

You're not.

728

:

Even talking as much about, you know, we

should talk about your business and your,

729

:

you know, and how you Serve your clients

and how you're growing that but the So

730

:

it's not going to be your core competency.

731

:

You got to focus on that and you know,

just as an example, we don't You know,

732

:

the number of people come to me and say,

like, why don't you guys do a podcast?

733

:

Why don't you guys do a podcast?

734

:

Yeah.

735

:

Because as you know, it

takes a lot of work to

736

:

erika: do it

737

:

keith: well.

738

:

It really does.

739

:

It's really easy to do a bad podcast.

740

:

I totally agree with that.

741

:

It's very easy.

742

:

And in, in the first time you listen

to a bad podcast, you're not going

743

:

to go back and listen to another one.

744

:

It's true.

745

:

So it's incredibly difficult

to do great podcasts.

746

:

And so we've partnered with people to

do podcasts, I'm going to be doing a

747

:

podcast and to dip our toe in that water.

748

:

And I think it's turned out really

well, W A B E, they're experts

749

:

at doing audio programming.

750

:

And so we, you know, we partner

with them to let them do it.

751

:

And then, and then that's been a better

format for us we have to prioritize

752

:

even though I want to do everything you

753

:

erika: can't.

754

:

Well, you're tapping into something that

I think anybody who is a business owner or

755

:

would like to be a business owner will run

into and it's the temptation and the pull

756

:

to go so many different directions and

to do so many things and on one hand Your

757

:

core competency is the stuff that you're

good at and the stuff you're an expert in.

758

:

And on the other hand, there are

new skill sets that you should

759

:

be learning along your way.

760

:

And it's, I think, just something

you hone over time, but knowing

761

:

like, Hey, this is worth adding

some new knowledge and pursuing,

762

:

and hey, this is not, this isn't.

763

:

You know, , and I think that you could

really, I mean, I, over the course of,

764

:

uh, Ten years in business have definitely

gone down some roads that ultimately

765

:

weren't the road for me I mean we did

like picnic basket rentals for a while

766

:

and it's like nobody wants this and

like just you know But you got to try

767

:

things But the more you do I think

it's really If you're introspective

768

:

at all, it's easy to kind of get data

about yourself and about your brand

769

:

and know, like, hey, this is a choice

that's going to be really great for me.

770

:

Or, hey, this is something that we

need to outsource because it's just

771

:

not our expertise and that's not

in alignment with our brand values.

772

:

So,

773

:

keith: that's a good point.

774

:

Yeah, totally.

775

:

And I think it's about the, what's

the cost of taking those risks, right?

776

:

Yes.

777

:

So, you're, you know, the cost

of doing a podcast is, is not.

778

:

It's not that high.

779

:

It's a, it's a calculated risk.

780

:

That's worth taking.

781

:

Um, you know, maybe picnic

baskets are probably a relatively

782

:

low risk, but I don't know.

783

:

Maybe there's a lot of

inventory and there's low risk,

784

:

erika: low interest.

785

:

keith: And, uh, although they

probably would have done pretty

786

:

well during the pandemic.

787

:

Um, but, but the, But yeah, you

have to, you have to figure out

788

:

what makes sense for what you're

good at, uh, and then lean into it.

789

:

I mean, I think that's one of the things,

I don't even know if you asked this

790

:

question, but I'll say it back to me.

791

:

But it's, , you know, one of the things

that I've learned thinking about, I

792

:

didn't want to own my own business.

793

:

I never wanted to, I never wanted

to like own my own business.

794

:

I don't, I'm not a risk taker.

795

:

I said this to, to someone recently.

796

:

An advisor that I was talking to when

I was giving them the overview of how

797

:

I got to where I am and how I got into

this, and I said something about not

798

:

being, and I'm not a risk taker, and I'm

not, and they were, they just laughed,

799

:

and they said, you know, everyone thinks

that you're a risk taker, like how,

800

:

what kind of crazy person buys this

newspaper, but it was a calculated risk.

801

:

I had, you know, what, and I wish I

had come to this revelation earlier

802

:

in life, but maybe I wasn't meant to.

803

:

If you, if you met 16, 15 year old

me, I've almost come like full circle

804

:

and it's like obsession with, and

it's like understanding of the media.

805

:

Yeah.

806

:

Especially local in Atlanta.

807

:

I mean, and, and it's just, it's sort

of, it's funny to me that that's what's

808

:

happened and like how I've gotten back.

809

:

Yeah.

810

:

And also that I have this global view

and I've traveled, you know, a lot of

811

:

places and I've lived in other countries

and I've spent a lot of time in other

812

:

countries, but my world now is so local.

813

:

I cover local news.

814

:

I went yesterday to a suburb

30 miles outside of Atlanta

815

:

and it felt, it felt exotic.

816

:

I never travel anymore, even though

that was my identity for so long, I was

817

:

in airports two, three times a week.

818

:

So anyway, the point being is, is I

have come full circle to the thing

819

:

that I'm super passionate about.

820

:

And I'm working more than I've ever

worked, and I'm a work, kind of a worker.

821

:

Yeah.

822

:

But I love it.

823

:

I've never had this much

fun doing what we're doing.

824

:

But it's hard, and it's especially

hard in, in the industry that we're

825

:

in because the media industry

is under tremendous pressure.

826

:

, it's changing very quickly,

it's not particularly, , the,

827

:

the margins are very small.

828

:

Um, but it's fun, and so

that makes it worth it.

829

:

Oh, I totally

830

:

erika: agree with that.

831

:

keith: I just remembered a

story that you'll appreciate.

832

:

, other people may already be asleep, or

have turned the channel, but I once, I

833

:

was living in New York, and I was living

downtown, uh, I think on 19th street, and

834

:

a friend wanted to set me up on a date.

835

:

with a woman that lived on 93rd Street

on the east side and I lived on the west

836

:

side, and I said It's not gonna work out.

837

:

I can just tell you like

it's just way too far.

838

:

Yeah, and It's like the equivalent of

someone wanted to set you up with someone

839

:

that lived in Woodstock or something

Immediately now with a shout out to all

840

:

of our listeners in Woodstock Yeah, so I

said I just don't think it's gonna work

841

:

out and my friend who was married to his

college, you know, been married forever,

842

:

he looked at me just incredulously and

said, I don't understand how you will

843

:

run 26 miles to nowhere, but you won't

go to the Upper East Side for a date.

844

:

erika: That's a solid point, but

also, especially in New York, that

845

:

is geographically undesirable.

846

:

That's a completely different experience.

847

:

It is geographically undesirable.

848

:

Yeah, like I, and you don't, no,

I support you in that choice.

849

:

Did you ever even meet her?

850

:

Or were you just like, no?

851

:

keith: I think I did meet her later.

852

:

Okay.

853

:

Yeah.

854

:

She came down.

855

:

But not on every side.

856

:

I don't know where they get, maybe

one of his parties or something.

857

:

Okay.

858

:

, erika: I thought the story was going

to go to like, so I decided to like

859

:

combine my training with the state.

860

:

So I ran up,

861

:

keith: I would have been, I do

enjoy running errands, literally.

862

:

It's a very effective, way to do things.

863

:

I used to occasionally stop by

whole foods at the end of a run.

864

:

Where, where we live and

grab like one or two things.

865

:

Sumo oranges, avocados.

866

:

Whatever happened to sumo oranges?

867

:

erika: They're seasonal and

we're out of the season.

868

:

But I

869

:

keith: feel like they weren't as...

870

:

erika: This was a bad year.

871

:

This was a bad citrus

year in general though.

872

:

Like our peach crops were bad.

873

:

You probably noticed.

874

:

Yeah, I think it's just like...

875

:

But citrus definitely took a big hit.

876

:

We noticed that with the sumo.

877

:

But the prices didn't.

878

:

I'm still spending six

dollars on a fucking orange.

879

:

It better be the best orange

I've ever put in my mouth.

880

:

I feel like those are

881

:

keith: personal choices.

882

:

erika: I know.

883

:

keith: Only a millennial who doesn't

have kids and owns their own business

884

:

can spend six dollars on an orange

that may or may not be that good.

885

:

You know what?

886

:

erika: I'm okay with being in that

socioeconomic description zone.

887

:

Reminds me, my little brother came over

the other night and we were hanging

888

:

out and playing the guitar and I was

like, I know this sounds weird, but

889

:

I can make a really good smoothie.

890

:

Like, do you want a smoothie?

891

:

And he was like, yeah.

892

:

And so I had some shaved

coconut and I put it on top of

893

:

the smoothies as like garnish.

894

:

And my brother was like, man, listen, I

know this is how we're in different tax

895

:

brackets is that you can afford garnish.

896

:

And I was like, Oh, I wouldn't

have thought about it that way.

897

:

But I'm like, that's a good point.

898

:

Like this is adding

nothing but aesthetics,

899

:

keith: someone told me recently that

the definition of low key rich, as

900

:

they called it, uh huh, was you can

walk around with your iPhone without a

901

:

erika: case.

902

:

Oh yeah, that is a good sign.

903

:

It's the quiet luxury.

904

:

It's those subtle things where

you're like, oh, they've got money.

905

:

And I think, you know that saying

like, money talks and wealth whispers.

906

:

An iPhone free case is like a, I'm rich.

907

:

I never heard that.

908

:

Really?

909

:

It's a good one.

910

:

Do you have advice for people who want

to get involved in the local arena?

911

:

But, you know, have a full time job

and not a ton of time or money to

912

:

give, but want to make a difference?

913

:

keith: That's a good question.

914

:

I think that, uh, so, I mean, I

think you just have to get involved.

915

:

And it's, it is, people are exhausted.

916

:

There's, you know, I mean,

you and I don't have kids.

917

:

Uh, praise be, but I'm tired every night.

918

:

You know, I think, I think you

just ha you have to get in involved

919

:

and put yourself out there, which

is, which is hard for people.

920

:

But there's mm-hmm.

921

:

, whether you're volunteering at Trees

Atlanta, or you're, volunteering at a, you

922

:

know, with local kids or homeless shelter.

923

:

I think it's just really

important to get involved.

924

:

Mm-hmm.

925

:

, And it doesn't have to be about money.

926

:

Um, but you know, the time, you

know, people need support and people

927

:

need to be engaged in the community.

928

:

And we don't have that.

929

:

We've lost that.

930

:

We we've lost it way before

COVID, but COVID exacerbated it.

931

:

Oh, I agree.

932

:

, and I think it's a lot easier

to be on a local level.

933

:

To take your jersey, right?

934

:

Everyone's got a political jersey on at

the national level Which is what you see

935

:

and you see it stoked by social media.

936

:

You see it stoked by cable news.

937

:

Sure , so we try not to do that and

we and I think that for the most

938

:

part we Are succeeding in that?

939

:

Um, but you know, you have to know what's

going on but to get involved, You can

940

:

do it you have you know, you have to

try to do it locally, but it's hard.

941

:

Um, and if you don't do it You know, if

good people don't do it, it only takes a

942

:

very few number of bad people to really

screw things up for everyone else.

943

:

So that's the, the crazy

thing is that numbers.

944

:

You know, the numbers of people that

are involved in local politics, local

945

:

elections is, disturbingly small.

946

:

Yeah.

947

:

erika: I think people don't realize,

and I think it's easy to ignore as well.

948

:

, I know that my text threads with friends,

especially as political stuff starts

949

:

to, ramp up towards election cycles.

950

:

We have a lot of really strong

opinions about things that directly

951

:

impact us, but I think that there's,

other than of course voting and just

952

:

being vocal in conversations with

people who may disagree, I know for

953

:

me that there's a lot more that I

could be doing and, , Having people

954

:

like you around me, I feel like you

always keep me, like, Ha, ha, ha, ha.

955

:

Your face.

956

:

That's a lot of, that's a lot of pressure.

957

:

Well, it's, I think you're a good

example of somebody who is able to remain

958

:

optimistic in, uh, times that I tend to

not remain optimistic, and I feel like

959

:

you're just good at always being forward

going and keeping your eye on the goal.

960

:

And, , I think it's easy to not do.

961

:

Oh, it's really,

962

:

keith: it's very easy to not do.

963

:

Yeah.

964

:

And I mean, I'm, I

appreciate you saying that.

965

:

I don't know that it's always true,

but I think I, you know, I have the

966

:

advantage of time, uh, spending a little

bit more time on earth than, than you.

967

:

But I think it's, I don't know.

968

:

It's, it's scary times.

969

:

You know, politics aside which

is certainly scary, but I mean,

970

:

there's other things that are, you

know, probably going to impact us

971

:

a lot more that are more scary.

972

:

You know, mental health, the effects

of COVID on, on kids and teenagers,

973

:

the effects of social media on kids and

teenagers, , or young adults, , I think

974

:

is, is incredibly scary and will have

a lot more lasting impacts on society.

975

:

Than, uh, you know, than

an election here or there.

976

:

Mm-hmm.

977

:

. But the elections also have

consequences because Yeah.

978

:

There's a lot of, uh, laws that are,

that are on the, that are on the books

979

:

or changing that we never thought would

change, because of local elections.

980

:

Mm-hmm.

981

:

people don't pay attention to.

982

:

So yeah,

983

:

erika: that's where it all begins.

984

:

And then, sometimes, once the train has

left the station, there's no going back.

985

:

And so, I feel like, I appreciate that

when something, or I hear whispers of

986

:

things happening in Atlanta, I feel

like Keith is somebody I can text and be

987

:

like, hey, what's the story with this?

988

:

And you're just like, it's fine.

989

:

Or, you know what I mean?

990

:

I think you always have

an optimistic angle on it.

991

:

Which, would you consider

yourself an optimist?

992

:

Like, is that your

disposition with all things?

993

:

keith: I had a call earlier today with

a friend who was asking me about the

994

:

media industry, and I said, and he, I've

worked with him for years in New York,

995

:

and he was like, how are things going?

996

:

And I'm like, I don't have

anything to complain about.

997

:

Yeah.

998

:

I was like, it's really weird.

999

:

I have like three hours

more in my day every day.

:

00:46:46,881 --> 00:46:48,201

But, I mean, I think,

:

00:46:48,201 --> 00:46:52,921

I think I've learned to be more

optimistic now because, you know,

:

00:46:52,971 --> 00:46:59,311

in this role, which, with, which has

leadership or quasi leadership, you

:

00:46:59,311 --> 00:47:01,771

know, elements to it in the community,

whether it's through different

:

00:47:01,781 --> 00:47:03,141

nonprofits that I'm involved with.

:

00:47:03,151 --> 00:47:08,241

So I try to be optimistic, but

it's, you know, it's really scary.

:

00:47:08,241 --> 00:47:12,091

I mean, I, I don't have my own

kids, but I have a lot of nieces and

:

00:47:12,091 --> 00:47:15,391

nephews that are in there that are

teenagers and now going off to college.

:

00:47:15,421 --> 00:47:18,291

And I think, , if you don't have hope.

:

00:47:19,156 --> 00:47:23,106

That the kids will do, I mean, I

guess I have hope that they'll do

:

00:47:23,116 --> 00:47:26,136

better, but it's, I don't know,

it's, it's, it's a little bit

:

00:47:26,136 --> 00:47:27,886

scary, but I'm generally optimistic.

:

00:47:27,886 --> 00:47:30,996

I mean, things are, things are

good, and I'm having fun, so.

:

00:47:31,626 --> 00:47:34,366

erika: I mean, at the end of the day, I

think that is all that matters, because

:

00:47:34,426 --> 00:47:38,189

it's, There's no point in killing yourself

at work if you're not going to enjoy any

:

00:47:38,189 --> 00:47:42,389

fruits of your labor or wake up at 70 and

just be like, now I'll take that trip.

:

00:47:42,429 --> 00:47:44,689

And it's like, your knees cannot

handle those cobblestones.

:

00:47:44,689 --> 00:47:47,409

Like you got to just be present.

:

00:47:48,009 --> 00:47:48,229

Well,

:

00:47:48,229 --> 00:47:52,739

keith: I mean, having run a lot of

marathons and a lot of miles, my knees

:

00:47:52,759 --> 00:47:58,459

are actually shockingly good shape,

but, , yeah, but I'm also, I mean, that.

:

00:47:58,478 --> 00:48:01,598

Your, your point there, you're, you

do a much better job of taking trips

:

00:48:01,603 --> 00:48:04,478

and enjoying things more than I do.

:

00:48:04,478 --> 00:48:09,548

I mean, I'm in a phase of where I am

with the company and of my life where

:

00:48:09,548 --> 00:48:13,388

I've never worked more, I went away

this summer on a trip to, to Cuba.

:

00:48:13,748 --> 00:48:13,838

Mm-hmm.

:

00:48:14,078 --> 00:48:17,558

, which has very, very,

intermittent internet access.

:

00:48:17,678 --> 00:48:18,008

Oh, yeah.

:

00:48:18,078 --> 00:48:21,824

And it was incredibly stressful because

being a small business owner, Um, you

:

00:48:21,824 --> 00:48:26,284

know, being out of touch and everything

was fine and things obviously, you

:

00:48:26,284 --> 00:48:29,694

know, go on and they don't need me at

every little moment, but I'm in that

:

00:48:29,694 --> 00:48:33,454

phase of being a small business owner

where, you know, I don't think I'm

:

00:48:33,454 --> 00:48:38,514

enjoying that, that balance, but I,

mean, I love what I'm doing, so it's,

:

00:48:38,524 --> 00:48:43,264

it doesn't even feel, , like work and I

can, it's just such a cliche, but I can.

:

00:48:43,264 --> 00:48:47,624

Weave in things that I love to do

with work too, which is why this is a

:

00:48:47,624 --> 00:48:49,634

job that's uniquely suited for me.

:

00:48:49,814 --> 00:48:50,684

erika: What's an example of

:

00:48:50,684 --> 00:48:51,124

keith: that, Keith?

:

00:48:51,124 --> 00:48:52,464

Well, food.

:

00:48:52,464 --> 00:48:53,784

So I love eating out.

:

00:48:53,814 --> 00:48:55,034

I love going to

:

00:48:55,034 --> 00:48:55,444

erika: restaurants.

:

00:48:55,464 --> 00:48:58,554

You can find Keith perched on

a barstool at Miller Union like

:

00:48:58,554 --> 00:48:59,874

five out of seven nights a week.

:

00:48:59,974 --> 00:49:00,124

I

:

00:49:00,274 --> 00:49:02,564

keith: love going to eat at the bar.

:

00:49:03,224 --> 00:49:05,464

At different restaurants.

:

00:49:05,934 --> 00:49:07,224

Or the same restaurant a lot.

:

00:49:08,754 --> 00:49:11,814

So that's something that gives me a

lot of comfort and it's something that

:

00:49:11,814 --> 00:49:16,364

we cover and it's something that, you

know, is, how I like to spend my time,

:

00:49:16,724 --> 00:49:23,644

music, , political events or community

events, so I, you know, being a publisher

:

00:49:23,654 --> 00:49:28,244

now, I take a different approach to, to

political events, but, , this, you know,

:

00:49:28,244 --> 00:49:32,104

for these two years I'm serving as chair

of the Atlanta Press Club, which is an

:

00:49:32,144 --> 00:49:37,384

amazing experience, so it gets, You know,

it puts me in a lot of, you know, events

:

00:49:37,384 --> 00:49:40,754

and rooms with really interesting people.

:

00:49:41,214 --> 00:49:45,984

So last week I got to introduce the

CDC director and got to sit with her at

:

00:49:45,984 --> 00:49:48,114

lunch and, talk about her experience.

:

00:49:48,824 --> 00:49:51,064

So those are the things that I would

never, those are the things that I would

:

00:49:51,064 --> 00:49:54,054

never get to do in a different job.

:

00:49:54,054 --> 00:49:55,944

So, you know, that is where.

:

00:49:55,944 --> 00:49:59,874

That intersection of work

and to me that's fun, right?

:

00:49:59,954 --> 00:50:00,464

Yeah.

:

00:50:00,554 --> 00:50:01,664

That's what I love to do.

:

00:50:02,494 --> 00:50:06,254

erika: I think, that really

applies to what I do as well.

:

00:50:06,264 --> 00:50:11,184

Like I have been very intentional

with selling things that are things

:

00:50:11,184 --> 00:50:13,484

that I actually enjoy and love.

:

00:50:13,484 --> 00:50:14,874

So it really doesn't feel like work.

:

00:50:15,174 --> 00:50:21,484

And although, I mean, I do work a lot

and luckily I have the Availability

:

00:50:21,484 --> 00:50:24,334

to do that because I don't have kids

and you know, my life is my life.

:

00:50:24,674 --> 00:50:28,224

It is so wonderful when you

can harmonize things that you

:

00:50:28,234 --> 00:50:31,114

love with things that pay you.

:

00:50:31,764 --> 00:50:33,714

It's like, I think that's the sweet spot.

:

00:50:33,734 --> 00:50:37,564

Even if you are working a lot and

even if you do need to be kind of,

:

00:50:37,964 --> 00:50:42,344

you know, email available when you're

on vacation and stuff like that.

:

00:50:42,354 --> 00:50:44,874

It's so worth it because it just feels

:

00:50:44,874 --> 00:50:45,224

keith: good.

:

00:50:45,224 --> 00:50:48,794

Yeah, and especially when you're doing,

when you're growing and you're, you

:

00:50:48,794 --> 00:50:52,944

know, you're bringing more people in,

you're giving people opportunities, and

:

00:50:52,944 --> 00:50:54,224

you're producing great product, right?

:

00:50:54,224 --> 00:50:55,644

, you sell great products.

:

00:50:55,644 --> 00:50:58,494

You have great experience,

, provide great services.

:

00:50:58,494 --> 00:51:03,034

So we, you know, we, if we can strive

to put out great products into the

:

00:51:03,034 --> 00:51:04,614

world, then it makes it even more fun.

:

00:51:04,864 --> 00:51:05,364

erika: I agree.

:

00:51:06,014 --> 00:51:11,549

Keith, are you somebody who

is, uh, in, in regards to work?

:

00:51:11,549 --> 00:51:16,949

Like, are you able to appreciate

and enjoy the successes that you've

:

00:51:16,949 --> 00:51:20,969

had or are you somebody who's always

looking at the next benchmark?

:

00:51:20,969 --> 00:51:22,859

keith: So this may contradict

'cause you just called me

:

00:51:22,859 --> 00:51:25,629

optimistic . Um, you agreed.

:

00:51:27,119 --> 00:51:28,199

Uh, no.

:

00:51:28,199 --> 00:51:30,989

I mean, I'm still a new business owner.

:

00:51:30,989 --> 00:51:31,079

Mm-hmm.

:

00:51:31,319 --> 00:51:35,729

. So I, I mean, I think, you know,

the, I don't think I ever thought.

:

00:51:36,089 --> 00:51:38,389

I mean, people didn't think

that we could do this.

:

00:51:38,429 --> 00:51:41,949

People thought this was crazy and

it still may turn out to be crazy.

:

00:51:42,029 --> 00:51:42,359

Yeah.

:

00:51:42,409 --> 00:51:46,769

, you know, we grew, I think I told

you this, my second month our revenue

:

00:51:46,769 --> 00:51:51,279

fell 20 percent and I sat down on

the floor in the fetal position

:

00:51:51,279 --> 00:51:52,699

and was like, what have I done?

:

00:51:53,249 --> 00:51:58,779

Because if you open up, Any news

story about the news industry,

:

00:51:59,369 --> 00:52:01,139

it will paralyze you, right?

:

00:52:01,149 --> 00:52:05,769

It's just, it's layoffs, it's

bankruptcies, it's equity, it's

:

00:52:05,809 --> 00:52:12,329

hedge funds taking over and gutting

newspapers, it's national companies

:

00:52:12,329 --> 00:52:15,539

running local media companies.

:

00:52:15,539 --> 00:52:20,934

I think that of the local TV stations

in Atlanta, only one locally owned.

:

00:52:21,094 --> 00:52:21,374

Um,

:

00:52:21,394 --> 00:52:24,904

erika: that's crazy and also something

that I feel like you're like the only

:

00:52:24,904 --> 00:52:26,184

type of person who knows this shit.

:

00:52:26,194 --> 00:52:28,944

And so it's really interesting

to hear, you know, well, yeah.

:

00:52:28,944 --> 00:52:30,824

So I'm surprised to hear that.

:

00:52:30,824 --> 00:52:31,064

Yeah.

:

00:52:31,174 --> 00:52:35,274

keith: So, being a new business owner

and, you know, being someone that's

:

00:52:35,274 --> 00:52:40,354

run marathons and tried to run them

at a relatively competitive, um,

:

00:52:41,124 --> 00:52:41,614

erika: you know, place.

:

00:52:41,814 --> 00:52:45,144

keith: But that, you know, I do have

a piece of my personality that just

:

00:52:45,144 --> 00:52:46,614

like pushes and pushes and pushes.

:

00:52:46,614 --> 00:52:49,854

So, so I'm really proud

of what we're doing.

:

00:52:49,894 --> 00:52:53,154

but having that first taste of

growing and this being my first

:

00:52:53,154 --> 00:52:55,204

business, now I want to grow more.

:

00:52:55,264 --> 00:52:55,884

Yeah, it feels good.

:

00:52:56,414 --> 00:53:02,244

You know, but I also I have on

my monitor at home a sticky note

:

00:53:02,274 --> 00:53:04,324

that says, meaningful, not massive.

:

00:53:05,194 --> 00:53:09,074

So there's part of me that,

you know, wants to grow, wants

:

00:53:09,074 --> 00:53:10,394

to be a perfectionist, right?

:

00:53:10,394 --> 00:53:14,844

I see all the, you know, people are very

generous about pointing out typos that

:

00:53:14,844 --> 00:53:17,744

we have in the paper or in our emails.

:

00:53:20,064 --> 00:53:22,974

But I also see them and internalize them.

:

00:53:23,404 --> 00:53:25,654

So, you know, I want it to be perfect.

:

00:53:25,814 --> 00:53:28,144

It's not, I realize it's not realistic.

:

00:53:28,504 --> 00:53:34,304

Um, but I do, you know, I do push us

and push myself, you know, to be better.

:

00:53:34,464 --> 00:53:34,794

erika: Yeah.

:

00:53:34,824 --> 00:53:36,074

So that makes sense.

:

00:53:36,104 --> 00:53:38,394

It's like the progress

over perfection thing.

:

00:53:38,404 --> 00:53:41,284

It's better , to get something out

into the world and know that you

:

00:53:41,284 --> 00:53:43,564

can refine and let things evolve.

:

00:53:43,894 --> 00:53:45,154

Cause I think a lot of people have this.

:

00:53:45,154 --> 00:53:49,104

Paralysis of perfection that if they can't

do things perfectly they don't want to do

:

00:53:49,104 --> 00:53:53,294

it at all and I definitely struggle with

that I mean, I there was like almost a

:

00:53:53,294 --> 00:53:57,494

full year between The seed being planted

of doing this podcast and me actually

:

00:53:57,494 --> 00:54:00,994

doing it because I was like I need the

best microphones I need a good logo.

:

00:54:01,134 --> 00:54:03,644

I need you know, this list of I

was like if I'm gonna do this I've

:

00:54:03,644 --> 00:54:05,494

got to do this in the best way.

:

00:54:05,544 --> 00:54:13,034

I am capable of doing But could I have

gotten this out six months sooner Yeah,

:

00:54:13,034 --> 00:54:14,284

keith: but I think that's okay.

:

00:54:14,344 --> 00:54:18,054

Depending on your position, whether

that's you know, if you have investors

:

00:54:18,514 --> 00:54:22,624

in your business, right, that creates

a different dynamic for perfection.

:

00:54:22,644 --> 00:54:25,869

I mean, there's a saying and, you

know, I guess everywhere there's

:

00:54:25,869 --> 00:54:29,169

a saying that's, you know, don't

let perfect be the enemy of good.

:

00:54:29,429 --> 00:54:30,609

Oh, I haven't ever heard

:

00:54:30,609 --> 00:54:30,869

erika: that.

:

00:54:31,099 --> 00:54:31,529

You haven't?

:

00:54:31,559 --> 00:54:32,939

No, but I like,

:

00:54:32,939 --> 00:54:34,199

keith: that's exactly what I'm saying.

:

00:54:34,219 --> 00:54:36,749

You haven't worked in corporate settings?

:

00:54:36,799 --> 00:54:38,719

I ever heard of thinking outside the box?

:

00:54:38,869 --> 00:54:39,929

I have heard of that.

:

00:54:40,089 --> 00:54:41,439

Have you ever heard of low hanging fruit?

:

00:54:41,559 --> 00:54:42,139

Yeah.

:

00:54:42,439 --> 00:54:43,419

Have you ever heard of circle back?

:

00:54:43,529 --> 00:54:43,549

Yeah.

:

00:54:45,719 --> 00:54:46,439

Put a pin in it.

:

00:54:46,759 --> 00:54:47,599

So put a pin in it.

:

00:54:47,609 --> 00:54:52,249

So, you know, that, you know,

whether, you know, this, the.

:

00:54:52,669 --> 00:54:56,109

Perspective of your business,

whether you have investors, what your

:

00:54:56,109 --> 00:54:58,329

cost basis are every month, right?

:

00:54:58,409 --> 00:55:03,549

I mean, there's, you know, there's months

we've, we just had a record month in

:

00:55:03,629 --> 00:55:07,019

ad sales, which is our metric of how

we, you know, how we run the business.

:

00:55:07,719 --> 00:55:11,189

Um, but that was after a

really difficult summer.

:

00:55:11,769 --> 00:55:16,469

So things even out, it took me a long

time to get comfortable with that.

:

00:55:16,529 --> 00:55:21,899

And I'm still, you know, two and a half

years in as a first time business owner,

:

00:55:23,019 --> 00:55:26,749

I think I probably do a little bit less

these days, but I still check the bank

:

00:55:26,749 --> 00:55:30,269

account on a daily basis pretty much.

:

00:55:30,829 --> 00:55:38,169

Because it's still new to me and it's a

little bit, I'm really proud of what we're

:

00:55:38,169 --> 00:55:39,739

building and really proud of our success.

:

00:55:39,739 --> 00:55:44,999

But it's also, you know, I realized we

have to stay on our game because it's not

:

00:55:45,049 --> 00:55:45,769

erika: guaranteed.

:

00:55:45,899 --> 00:55:46,839

Nothing's guaranteed.

:

00:55:47,839 --> 00:55:50,589

It's interesting being a business owner.

:

00:55:51,739 --> 00:55:56,319

the imagery of you in the fetal

position after that bad month.

:

00:55:56,349 --> 00:55:59,939

I mean, everyone has had their

handful of days like that.

:

00:55:59,939 --> 00:56:00,669

You'll have more.

:

00:56:01,039 --> 00:56:04,079

, but then you compare that to

like, oh, my newsletter just

:

00:56:04,079 --> 00:56:05,909

made 50, 000 people in two years.

:

00:56:05,909 --> 00:56:09,149

Like, these really amazing

kind of peaks and valleys.

:

00:56:09,459 --> 00:56:10,629

And that's all it is.

:

00:56:10,629 --> 00:56:14,889

It's just being able to adapt and know

that even if you're in one of those

:

00:56:14,889 --> 00:56:18,569

low points, there's another, there's

another high around the corner, but

:

00:56:18,569 --> 00:56:20,569

you just have to You just have to keep

:

00:56:20,809 --> 00:56:21,149

keith: going.

:

00:56:21,149 --> 00:56:21,849

Yeah, absolutely.

:

00:56:21,849 --> 00:56:24,319

But it was, it took me

a minute to get there.

:

00:56:24,329 --> 00:56:28,089

Because I had not been, I

mean, yes, you're right.

:

00:56:28,169 --> 00:56:30,839

And these are things that

you know academically.

:

00:56:31,349 --> 00:56:32,569

Yeah, in practice it's different.

:

00:56:32,569 --> 00:56:36,689

But it's a lot harder to, you know,

in the heat of, you know, in the

:

00:56:36,739 --> 00:56:40,919

heat of the moment, when you're,

when you're a new business owner,

:

00:56:40,919 --> 00:56:45,659

when you're new to the team, Um, when

you're trying to, when you believe,

:

00:56:45,669 --> 00:56:47,179

even if you believe in your vision.

:

00:56:47,689 --> 00:56:51,669

And you believe in what you want to

do, you know, you have to get the,

:

00:56:52,049 --> 00:56:55,889

you have to get people on the team

to see that and to believe in it.

:

00:56:55,989 --> 00:56:56,359

Yeah.

:

00:56:56,449 --> 00:57:00,069

, so all those things, uh,

all those things factor in.

:

00:57:00,389 --> 00:57:01,049

erika: Absolutely.

:

00:57:01,739 --> 00:57:04,729

Okay, I've got one more thing on my

list, which I haven't shared with you.

:

00:57:04,799 --> 00:57:09,219

So, there's an item that I carry in the

gift shop that is 100 percent inspired

:

00:57:09,219 --> 00:57:13,979

by Keith Pepper, and it is our, science

beaker, but it's a decanter for wine.

:

00:57:14,359 --> 00:57:16,129

And, it's so cool.

:

00:57:16,159 --> 00:57:18,349

I think it's looks

great on every bar cart.

:

00:57:18,519 --> 00:57:22,379

It holds an entire bottle of red

wine if you need to decant it.

:

00:57:22,669 --> 00:57:23,999

keith: but I also can't take credit.

:

00:57:24,029 --> 00:57:28,079

I just want to give appropriate credit

to this because when I lived in New

:

00:57:28,079 --> 00:57:31,579

York, one of my favorite restaurants

that I went to frequently was called

:

00:57:31,579 --> 00:57:37,529

Hearth in the East Village, and it had

an incredible, incredible wine program.

:

00:57:38,099 --> 00:57:40,269

And, but it was super casual.

:

00:57:40,479 --> 00:57:40,929

I love that.

:

00:57:41,049 --> 00:57:44,809

And, I mean, it was, it was nice, but it,

you could go, you know, like a classic New

:

00:57:44,809 --> 00:57:46,009

York restaurant, you could wear whatever.

:

00:57:46,509 --> 00:57:48,459

And they used those.

:

00:57:48,459 --> 00:57:51,219

middle school, high school

science beakers for wine there.

:

00:57:51,219 --> 00:57:52,699

So that's where I got the idea.

:

00:57:53,069 --> 00:57:54,009

I don't think I knew that.

:

00:57:54,469 --> 00:57:54,709

Yeah.

:

00:57:54,709 --> 00:57:55,149

So it wasn't.

:

00:57:55,181 --> 00:57:56,281

My original idea.

:

00:57:56,401 --> 00:57:57,031

Okay.

:

00:57:57,411 --> 00:57:58,861

Well, although maybe I

brought it to Atlanta.

:

00:57:58,921 --> 00:57:59,461

I don't know.

:

00:57:59,531 --> 00:57:59,681

I

:

00:57:59,691 --> 00:58:02,481

erika: think you brought it to Atlanta

I don't see this around a lot other

:

00:58:02,481 --> 00:58:05,781

than here, but people always gravitate

towards that in the shop because it's

:

00:58:05,781 --> 00:58:09,841

just a cool thing And so I think even

when it's not in use, it's a good form

:

00:58:09,851 --> 00:58:14,791

and function type of thing so if you're

listening, I'm gonna do a little promo

:

00:58:14,801 --> 00:58:17,201

where You get a free gift with purchase.

:

00:58:17,201 --> 00:58:22,591

You can get a, , decanter with any 50

purchase on our website with code PEPPER.

:

00:58:22,851 --> 00:58:25,481

P E P P E R, all caps.

:

00:58:26,261 --> 00:58:31,631

And, I want to remind everybody listening

that if you enjoyed this episode, please

:

00:58:31,961 --> 00:58:35,681

like and subscribe, rate and review,

and all of your purchases, you get

:

00:58:35,681 --> 00:58:37,591

10 percent off at hawkinsandclover.

:

00:58:37,591 --> 00:58:42,591

com with promo code CLOVERCLUB,

all caps, and Keith, I just want

:

00:58:42,591 --> 00:58:43,831

to thank you so much for your time.

:

00:58:43,831 --> 00:58:45,231

I really appreciate you.

:

00:58:45,301 --> 00:58:49,191

sitting down and having this chat

and I hope, I hope you learned a lot.

:

00:58:50,241 --> 00:58:53,411

keith: Well, I just want to say thank

you for having me and congratulations

:

00:58:53,411 --> 00:58:55,641

on finally launching this podcast.

:

00:58:55,691 --> 00:58:57,581

I think it was worth the wait.

:

00:58:57,641 --> 00:59:01,251

And I know what a labor

of love it is for you.

:

00:59:01,251 --> 00:59:03,151

And it's, uh, it's amazing.

:

00:59:03,151 --> 00:59:06,311

And I think the most important thing

is just putting yourself out there

:

00:59:06,311 --> 00:59:09,261

and then the consistency, which

you've already, you know, shown that

:

00:59:09,271 --> 00:59:11,671

you can do is gonna, gonna pay off.

:

00:59:12,091 --> 00:59:12,301

Well, I

:

00:59:12,321 --> 00:59:13,371

erika: sure hope so.

:

00:59:13,951 --> 00:59:14,531

Thank you, Keith.

:

00:59:14,876 --> 00:59:15,666

I appreciate you.

:

00:59:16,086 --> 00:59:16,486

All right.

:

00:59:16,506 --> 00:59:17,766

We'll see y'all next week.

:

00:59:17,846 --> 00:59:18,176

Bye.

Next Episode All Episodes Previous Episode
Clover Club Email Opt In

Clover Club Email Opt In

Thank you, you have been subscribed.

Listen for free

Show artwork for Clover Club

About the Podcast

Clover Club
Curious conversations and stories intended to make you laugh and learn.
As a shop owner and hair stylist with an impressive number of stamps on her passport, Erika Audrey has heard or experienced it all. And she's ready to share. These real life conversations and stories will make you laugh, cry, and gasp- sometimes in the same episode! Join Erika Audrey straight from Atlanta gift shop Hawkins & Clover. Welcome to Clover Club.

Thank you-
Theme Song: Nick Pantano of Sound Space https://www.soundspaceatl.com
Branding: Shari Margolin https://sharimargolindesignco.com

Contact-
pod@hawkinsandclover.com

About your host

Profile picture for Erika Audrey

Erika Audrey

Erika Audrey, a luminous presence hailing from the vibrant city of Atlanta, Georgia, is not your ordinary hairstylist and boutique owner. With a zest for life that's as contagious as her laughter, Erika is poised to take the podcasting world by storm as she embarks on her latest venture.

Launching her debut podcast is a natural extension of Erika's multifaceted personality. With an uncanny ability to seamlessly weave humor into her conversations, Erika's laughter-inducing anecdotes and razor-sharp wit are bound to captivate listeners. Her intelligence shines through as she tackles a diverse range of topics, proving that beneath the laughter lies substance and insight.